Information overload

[Wolfeman70]

Alright. I have information overload and I need help.

Background Information:
June of this year we (wife, daughter 11 years old and I) will be selling our house and traveling around the US for 1 or 2 years. We will then move to Europe. Most of the places we will be going to will be short stays, 1 to 7 days.

My desire:
I'd like to buy a smaller RV that would be easier to maneuver in parking lots residential neighborhoods (class B/C). We would be selling/giving away the RV at the end of the 1/2 year period so I'd like to buy used and keep my investment under $30k (proceeds from house sale).

So far:
Looking at buying a used rental from Cruise America or El Monte (probably El because of service records and a few bad CA posts here).

The problems:
1. I live near Memphis and the secondary RV market is very limited. Work and other requirements limit travel opportunities and time to go check out potentials. A trip to BUY would be possible but trips to just checking out RV's is going to be very difficult.
2. Storage space. We will be living out of the RV for 1 to 2 years. Obviously we won't have everything we own but how much space will we really have. Would a small trailer pulled behind be at all useful.
3. Trailering a car. I'm looking at a smaller RV so needing a car to get around won't be an issue and I might be able to expand my storage space with a small trailer but would trailering a car with us be at all advantageous?
4. I don't know what else.

This situation has come upons us rather quickly and living where we live makes things even more difficult. I know I should inspect the roof of any RV I'm going to buy but I've never even seen an RV roof much less inspected one. I'm sure there are a thousand other things i need to think about but I've spent 4 hours already looking thru these forums and I'm starting to get dizzy.

Any help or advice would greatly be appreciated. I'm sure everything I need to know is already covered somewhere in a faq or forum post but I'm overwhelmed right now.

[CA_Traveler]

Parking convenience is great but don't over think it. We went from CA to Newfoundland and back with a 22' class C. We initially said parking within 3 blocks was acceptable. We were never more than 1 block. In most places parking was available at the far end of the lot.

[tonyandkaren]

While rvhippo does have some good points, coming from years of experience living and traveling in a small C class, parking just isn't that much of a problem. We regularly visit cities and while we sometimes do have to take up two spaces or park a block or two away from what we want to see, we almost always find a parking spot. Attractions that are not in the city center usually have dedicated lots that are plenty large enough for small RVs. We often stop en-route to see things rather than staying in a central location and making day trips which can eat up a lot of gas. Each of my blog posts makes a note about RV parking at the attraction that we're visiting.

[rvhippo]

Wolfeman70 wrote:
A Class B towing a TT would be ideal. It would give us the RV features while driving I'm looking for while giving us storage and a place to stay that would be cheaper in the long run than a hotel. But as you pointed out, Class B's are very expensive.
Originally, I was looking at a Dodge Caravan with the swivel seats and table. That morphed into a small RV. Now I may have to go back and rethink my original idea. We lose the on the road bathroom ability and a few other on the road perks but gain a cheaper form of transportation at locations while still getting the nesting ability.
How long/ how much work does it take to go from driving to occupying a travel trailer? Could we pull into a rest stop or truck stop (or Wal-Mart parking lot), get out of the van, walk into our TT and go to sleep?

A minivan won't work. They can't tow anything substantial. You will have to get a cloth-sided hybrid tent camper and that is not suitable for long-term living (especially if it gets cold).

ALL the minivans and SUVs are payload limited. Their towing numbers are baloney because you will run out of payload capacity way, way before you run out of towing capacity.

You will want a 1-ton van. That will let you tow a large trailer and give you tons of interior room. You can throw in a porta-potti and curtain it off. You can put in a 12V DC fridge and still have enough room for a folding table and space to lay down on the floor. Sort of like a class-B at 1/3 the cost.

A 1-ton pickup truck has the payload capacity, but no interior room.

For size reference, most 15 passenger church vans are 1-ton vans. You will be able to go through the drive-thru with one and park almost anywhere.

Hooking up and unhooking the travel trailer depends on how settled you want to get. If you can get a level pull-through spot for an overnight stay, set the parking brake, put the van in park, chock the trailer wheels, plug the electrical in. If you don't want to put down the stabilizer jacks, it'll bounce a bit, but if you're too tired and just want to go to sleep, that's about all you have to do. Maybe 10-15 minutes?

If you want to do everything including leveling the trailer, unhooking the trailer, hooking up sewer and water, maybe 45 minutes. Hooking up will take a bit longer. Goes quicker once you get used to that particular vehicle and have a set place for everything.

If you don't have a generator for the trailer, you won't have much electrical power at a rest stop. No A/C, no microwave, no TV. You will have water, lights and heat. A trailer will heat sink in hot weather and become an oven inside. That's one of the reasons I like the class-B / van idea - they have A/C available all the time (get a carbon monoxide sensor for the van). There is over 9' of space behind the 2nd row seats on a Chevy long-wheelbase van. More than enough room to lay out on pads and take a quick nap.

Honestly, I'd prefer to just go with the van, but my wife absolutely refuses to use a porta-potti. I joked with her that the toilet in a class-B is going to cost an extra $40,000 because a van with a porta-potti and fridge can do almost everything that a class B can do (and it can tow more too) as long as you have a TT to sleep in at night.

[Wolfeman70]

That is some excellent information for my situation rvhippo. Especially the parking space size.
Over the past 6 months we have been taking meetings within a 5 hour drive of Memphis so we can get back for school on Monday mornings. A lot of the McDonald's and other small places that we stop at have only diagonal parking against a curb. A larger RV or any vehicle towing stuff has to park sideways and take up 5-10 spots. Wanting to avoid that is a small part of my desire for a smaller RV. The information you give about parking sizes seems to indicate that no matter what I do, it's going to be a problem. hmmm

A Class B towing a TT would be ideal. It would give us the RV features while driving I'm looking for while giving us storage and a place to stay that would be cheaper in the long run than a hotel. But as you pointed out, Class B's are very expensive.
Originally, I was looking at a Dodge Caravan with the swivel seats and table. That morphed into a small RV. Now I may have to go back and rethink my original idea. We lose the on the road bathroom ability and a few other on the road perks but gain a cheaper form of transportation at locations while still getting the nesting ability.
How long/ how much work does it take to go from driving to occupying a travel trailer? Could we pull into a rest stop or truck stop (or Wal-Mart parking lot), get out of the van, walk into our TT and go to sleep?

[rvhippo]

I'm six weeks out from my final purchase decision and am looking to do something similar. I'm planning a six month (and later, a three month) trip with dad (me), mom, a 3-year old daughter, and occasionally, a mom-in-law.

My first choice is a Chevy-based class B towing a bunkbed 24' long trailer (21' box, expands to 29' total length). The long-wheelbase Chevy van is 20.5' long. I will be able to park in any rural or suburban area since a standard parking space is about 20'. Parking in urban areas will be difficult, since the roof height will keep me out of most garages, but if I can find street parking, I will be able to fit in a single space.

My plan is to set the trailer down in a centralized area and do daytrips out from the trailer with the class-B. Then move the trailer every week or two. I'm planning on an even mix of national parks and cities (museums, concerts, cultural events and attractions), so maneuverability is very important. In my opinion, 20 feet is the maximum you can easily park in a suburban/urban environment. At 22', you will need to hang the front or back over the curb. At 24', you will need two spaces. When you're looking at class-C's, make sure you are getting the overall length and not the box length. For example, Coachmen had a Freelander 19 model that was 23' long (19' box, 23' overall length).

The class-B is fully self-contained, so we can eat, nap, watch TV, rest, and have a bathroom during our daytrips. At night, because it's self-contained, it can serve as an office or completely detached and private living space from the trailer.

My second choice is an extended wheel base Chevy van (extended version for more interior room and longer wheelbase for easier towing). I will take out three rows of chairs (leaving seating for 5) and I'll throw in a porta-potti, a 12v DC fridge, a small folding table and some Thermarest pads. Not exactly self-contained, but it has a toilet and the ability to keep food cool. Because the van is lighter, my towing capacity skyrockets and I can tow a much larger, 28'-30' box (32-35' overall length) trailer.

A 23' box class-C is not 23' long. It will be closer to 25-26' long. A 21' box will be 23-24' long. Also, it will be 8' wide. I think the church can make sure you have a space big enough for that, but unless your destination has spillover parking or bus parking, you're not going to fit into a standard car space - unless you're the first person there and the other cars park around you. If you're looking for space in a crowded lot, no one is going to leave 8' of width for you. It all depends on where you'll be going and how precious parking is in that area. If the class C gets beyond 24', you might as well just go up to 31' because you aren't going to be able to find parking for either one outside of dedicated RV/bus spaces.

For your situation, give the class-B / van option a thought. The tow-vehicle can serve as a separate room (once set up with a table, toilet and some 12V DC appliances) and can park in places a class-C can't.

Please see if your daughter can do homework in a bouncing car. I can do work in an airplane but can't do work in a moving car/van/bus because the movement is so much jerkier.

Cost-wise, you can get a 2006-2009 Chevy van for $15,000 and then spend $15,000 on a used trailer. A 2006-2009 class B will probably run $40-50,000. Fords will have less towing capacity, but are 10-15% cheaper.

Edit: The economics. The average person uses their RV 30 days per year. The breakeven point on renting versus buying is about 90 days (less than 90, it's cheaper to rent, more than 90 and it's cheaper to buy). I'm planning on 9 months of use over 2 years of ownership. I'm figuring 10-15% depreciation in the first year, 5% depreciation in the second year with late-model used units. I'm not planning on saving any money by using a RV. By the time depreciation, gas, camping and storage costs are factored in, it will cost me the same as (or more than) living in a sticks-and-bricks house. But it will be cheaper than staying in hotels and eating out for 9 months. The biggest factor is depreciation. The older the rig, the less depreciation and the cheaper it gets.

[bsinmich]

Tape on a roof is not always a sign of a leak. I have used Eternabond tape on all my MHs before they ever got a leak as my ounce of prevention. If you plan on working in winter weather dual pane windows are great. Just keep the advice in mind from here. As an example, we have had everything from TTs, popups, and MHs (Cs & As), all the time since 1969, when we had a 1 mo, old and 2 1/2 yr. old. You have stated you have zero experience. We have all made some mistakes and so will you. From our past experience I will say the Class A gas takes no more gas than a large C and is also no different to drive after the first full day of driving. I can turn in a shorter circle with my 38' A than in my previous 27' C.

[Wolfeman70]

As a person who loves a nice strong shower, the onboard shower is something I know is going to make me sad. I'm really hoping it's not THAT bad. I know the class C is going to be actually more crowded than a hotel room but the ability to personalize it and make it "home" helps a lot.

The boat and RV show comes on a work weekend for me. I work seven 12 hour day shifts then get seven days off then turn around and work seven 12 hour night shifts followed by seven days off. It's a great job but the days I'm working don't leave much time for other stuff. I'm trying to see about taking a vacation day for one of them (especially since Valentines is my anniversary too) but that's dead in the middle of my night shift week and it's hard to get the sleep schedule adjusted.
I am going to try and rent a small class C for a weekend trip to get a better feel for how things work together, road noise and vibrations as well as things like the shower but that still doesnt' help me with buying an RV several states away.
As I said earlier, I'm pretty well set on a used rental class C from C.A. or El Monte. I just really am not sure what things I don't know that would effect that decision. Road noise and freezing weather have become two issues I had no idea about that might strongly effect my decision. Someone has also told me to look out for front facing windows on the cabover because of leak, noise and heat issues. When I finally get on lot to buy I know the roof is something I must examine. A side to side seam is bad as well as tape around the sides or corners. I'm just not real sure what that means.

[ddndoug]

FYI - It looks like there is a boat and RV show in Memphis over Valentine's Day weekend. You could walk through lots of different types of RVs to get a feel for what you're looking for.

Doug

[ddndoug]

You mentioned having more room in a class C than in a hotel room... You really need to rent a Class C in the size you are wanting to buy, because I have a feeling you're going to be surprised. Even though the square footage may be similar, due to the width limitations on motrohomes you will feel much more "squeezed" into the RV. Plus, wait til the first time you use the onboard shower.

Again, not trying to dash your hopes, I just think you're limiting yourself by narrowing your search to a Class C before you even see them in person. JMHO

Doug

[Wolfeman70]

I currently live just south of Memphis. The two main companies I've seen discussed for rental RV sales are Cruise America and El Monte. There is a Cruise America company just north of Memphis for rentals (not sales) and that's where I'm looking to rent from. However, I think I'd like to buy from El Monte because the conversations I've seen about rental RV sales indicate they are more forthcoming with their maintenance records and the Cruise America staff can at times be rude and inconsiderate.

I should add to my previous post that I am currently debt free except for a house note and will not be going into debt for this purchase. There is a possibility that when I am done with the vehicle I will give it away. My current steady income stands at $500 per month once I quit my job so the fewer expenses I have when I hit the road full time the better.

[CA_Traveler]

The "standards" of the typical RV do not apply to you as you've clarified. Also you will have some facilities available to you when stopped, etc.

It might help to tell us your current location as there may be suggestions of places to look for a rig closer than several states away.

Also a professional inspection of used rigs is often a good idea. Perhaps friends would know someone qualified who would volunteer his help to get you started? Sometimes just asking...

[Wolfeman70]

I truly appreciate everyone's input, advice and suggestions. I've discovered a few issues I would never have thought of or even encountered during a rental test run. I do plan to rent an RV for a weekend and get some actual hands on experience. However, I feel the thread keeps getting sidetracked by my insistence on a Class C. I'd like to clear up a few things.

It has been suggested that I would be crazy to put myself and my family into a small class C for a year or two. The truth is, that's the sanest part of my plan. I am quitting a job making $80k a year with amazing benefits for a job making $12k to $20k a year with almost no benefits. I am taking an 11 year old daughter who has spent her entire life in the same house and school out of everything she knows and throwing her into this just as she's entering her tweens/teens. I'm taking a wife who is somewhat of a social butterfly away from all her friends and social life to live with just the 3 of us in a small box while always traveling. I'm doing this with the intention of living off the generosity of others and no real experience doing it. I have done just about everything I could to set us up for failure. We know this is going to be difficult and there are going to be problems.

However, I'm 43 and my wife is 36 and we've been married for 19 years. We have experience with life upheavals and starting over after I was medically discharged from the Army after 11 years. We have a very strong family bond and our faith to get us thru most of this. We've been doing this part time now for several months in a small car and have a little bit of experience packing/unpacking and traveling lite. Most people do what we're doing with a minivan and motel rooms so a class C while small is still going to give us more personal space than that. The fact that we have an end goal in mind and not a lifestyle helps out a lot as well.

Again, I want to thank everyone so far for all their input and help. You've really helped me out.

Right now, I know I'm hung up on maneuverability and size. I drove our church shuttlebus for the senior route for a while and really don't want something much bigger. Even the idea of towing a trailer give me a bit of a pause. That may change as I'm planning on trying to rent an RV for a weekend trip in February but who knows.

When I started this thread I had information overload and still do to a point. I"m still not sure how best to maximize the limited time I have to look over RV's or the extremely limited selection I have in this area. Especially since I"m looking to buy a used rental located several states away. But I do have a better grasp on what I'm getting into. Thank you very much.

[Bobbo]

Lots and lots of people buy too small, then have to upgrade at a considerable financial loss. You are in the express lane to do the same thing.

[westend]

From reading the last few replies, I believe the first thing you have to get over is the "maneuverability" boogie man. That is just an extraneous piece that doesn't need to be considered. Also, the Daughter's study time, it is just as easy to read a book in the back seat of a truck or van as it is to do it sitting at a table.
If you eliminate these two things, you broaden your choices. As I posted, a Class A is not going to be easy on your budget, the repairs and maintenance, along with the fuel mileage will explode any savings.
A class C will have less livable space, in most cases unless you buy one with multiple slides. That newer multiple slide model is also out of your budget.
Your lifestyle would be best served with a slightly used truck, a crew cab, or van for the extensive travel, and a medium sized, used travel trailer. This combination will give you more maneuverability to access attractions (unhitch trailer) and you will have a home with more usable space outside the vehicle. It will also be the most durable vehicle with the cheapest repair and maintenance.

Again, forget about the maneuverability aspect of your setup. By the third week you will question why it was ever an issue. It seems you may have an entire church parking lot to park in so backing and towing are not an issue.