Hello learned sages!Taking the family on a tour of the US and Canada this summer. National Parks, etc. I think we have basically decided to get a travel trailer, and tow it with my vehicle. It's me and the wife, two kids (7 and 9). I have a 2004 Lexus GX470. The SUV itself is rated to tow 6500lbs but the stock tow hitch only to 5000lbs (early 2004 model year tow package). The SUV has a lot of miles but runs great, I have maintained it well since about 90K miles and no signs of worry. I've towed things before and it does great.So I'm thinking I want a TT about 4000lbs or less, so that I can haul my water and other stuff in it. That puts me generally in a very restricted set of trailers 18-21 feet from what I can tell. Looking at a dealership a few days ago with the family, I think we have decided that we want a "permanent" queen bed with permanent bunk beds for the kids. A murphy-bed queen also a possibility. There seems to be like 30+ different new models out there with this configuration under ~4100lbs, but they are pricey, for us. What I want to do is get a used one for $5-8K, and put some time and money into making it better, if needed. Does that make sense or am I nuts? I could get a new Viking 21BH for like $13K which I think would fit our needs, but I don't want to spend that much - we are planning to travel for 14 months or so (only the summer with the TT in N. America) and spending money now means maybe cutting things out later. I'm willing to replace carpeting, components, etc. I'd rather have a higher quality trailer with some wear and tear, than a new one that doesn't last. What are fatal issues I should look for in units that are 5+ years old? In visiting the dealer and looking at used ones, we observed nasty mold and chemical smells that I'm not sure I could deal with.If I'm not nuts, how can I find something like what I'm looking for? I don't see many things for sale that are used and newer, maybe I'm not looking in the right places? RVTrader (can I say that?) has some things but not nearly as much as I believe has to be out there. I don't think I would buy anything sight-unseen, but I would be willing to travel to get it (I'm in PA)Any help or advice is greatly appreciated, thank you!

Towing, especially with an older SUV is not always all about weights. Frontal area of that big box will create a huge sail behing that SUV slowing you down terribly. First thing you really need to do is load family and all your traveling stuff into it, fill the fuel tank and drive across a set of scales. Then look on the drivers door post for FAWR,RAWR, and GVWR numbers. Stsrt doing the math. You will real quickly discover your available payload is much less than you might think. Remember approx 12% of a loaded trailers weight is added to your scaled ready to travel weight.I really think that that after is said and done your best choice will be a tent trailer, not a full sized travel trailer.

Right, good point.So car + full tank + us inside and no gear/camping stuff totals about 5525lbs. GVWR is 6150lbs, 2850 front 3350 rear. I don't have a clue on weight distribution but heavier people up front and all the tongue weight in the back for sure.So say I maxed out the trailer at 5000lbs (which the hitch is rated up to) that adds 600bs which makes the total 6125lbs. So 25lbs of "gear" I can put in the car. That's like nothing. Realistically I overestimated our weights by maybe 30 lbs, but regardless I'm not stocking stuff in the SUV because we don't want to haul it in the trailer. So I'll be looking to be as light as possible. 5Klbs behind me means basically everything needs to be in the trailer. 4Klbs behind me gives me 120lbs more cargo in the cabin, more realistic. Thank you for the eye-opener! Also I now realize I have seriously over loaded my ride in the past. Not okay for several months with the family. I think I'm still going to look for travel trailers, but my scope as shrunk even more.

Edit/Correction: I counted 23 gallons of gas twice, so I've got 142 more pounds to play with in the vehicle. Feels better.

I agree that a popup would probably be a the best option with this tow vehicle.You might also want to look at an A-liner or similar hard-sided foldable trailer. The basic tradeoff, as I see it, is less space inside for better protection from the elements. With a family of four, that probably isn't an ideal tradeoff, unless perhaps the kids sleep out in a separate tent.

Ascend had one that had bed and bunks but it would have to be a used one.bumpy

Looking for TT to fit our needs. Newb. | Good Sam Community

Grit_dog
Navigator
Nov 13, 2016
Rock on^!!
I'm sure y'all will have a blast. You're going to be camping after all.....
BarleyCrusher
Explorer
Nov 13, 2016
Thanks for everyone's advice. I've learned so much already and I'm glad I reached out to you guys.

I bought a Rockwood 2306. Well within towing specs. Will it be terrible or just fine, will my family suffer or will we thrive and flourish, will my TV live or will it give up a ghost, I guess we'll see!

I'm excited for the journey.
Santa_Fe
Explorer
Nov 12, 2016
I towed a Starcraft Travel Star 187TB with my 2008 4Runner V8, which, as someone already said, is mechanically identical to your GX. I never had an issue towing with this setup and this kind of HTT would be a great fit for your family.

Good luck!
RPreeb
Explorer
Nov 12, 2016
BarleyCrusher wrote:
I guess everyone is different, I think we would be okay in a Viking 21BH, for example. Dry weight under 4100lbs means a full water tank (40gal) leaves us 566lbs of "stuff" to load in. We will be traveling for 12 months or so with just what we can carry on our backs so packing light is welcome.

There are lighter options, too.

I think we can make the weight/capacity work out but is there some other reason not to tow something like this with my GX470?

Back in 1964 my father bought a 15 foot TT which he towed behind a '61 Chevy BelAir with a 283 V8. That would be the equivalent of a small V6 today, maybe not even that good. That Chevy struggled to haul that little trailer around. He used that for a year, then traded up to a Dodge Polara 383 Magnum in '65.

For that first summer, 5 of us camped in the trailer (Parents and 3 kids) and it worked quite well for what we did, but we just stayed in national forest campgrounds around Montana, aside from a 2 week trip to Banff and Jasper. Mom was a good camp cook and and good kitchen organizer, so between using a campfire and the little 2 burner stove in the TT, we got along okay. We mostly just used the TT for sleeping and playing cards in the evening - most of our living was outside. After all our intent was to go camping, not RV'ing.

My point is that if you go with a TT small enough to really be safe for your Lexus, it's going to take some compromise to make it work for a family of 4. If you get a TT too big for the car, then you have a much more difficult problem.

Right now we have a 5500 lb (gross) Jay Feather X213 TT, and we traded our Honda Ridgeline for a Ford F-150 to pull it. With the 3.5L Ecoboost V6 that has 420 pound/feet of torque and a full tow package (meaning transmission cooler, 3:55 rear end, tow/haul option on the transmission, etc) the Ford has twice the towing ability of the Honda. We are still going to be right at the limit for tongue weight, even with all that, but otherwise we have a vehicle which can take the full load without even breathing hard.

It doesn't pay to try and max out the specs, especially on an older vehicle that you are planning on taking a long trip with.
Grit_dog
Navigator
Nov 11, 2016
A few things to consider.
Old, high miles, barely adequate for the job tow rig more often than not equals transmission failure. Not the right vehicle to put into heavy service, IMO.
The difference between towing 4-5klbs pop up or flatbed that doesn't catch any wind vs a high profile trailer is a lot. Tough to put an exact number to without calculating but it's significant.
Hold your hand out the window at hiway speeds straight up vs flat. That'll give you an idea.
You're essentially full timing, so unless you're a minimalist when packing up, you'll load a lot of extra stuff for the trip. = Heavy.
It's a smallish rig that won't get any better mileage than a bigger one.
Given it appears you're on a fairly strict budget, I'd start searching now for a deal on a bigger full size something or other to tow with.
Full time living, unless you're a tent camper now and want to rough it long term personally I would only consider a hard side TT.
My recommendation would be a little different if you were talking weekend warrior duty with the trailer.
Just my 2c
ncrowley
Explorer II
Nov 11, 2016
You have gotten a lot of good advice. Another issue is the bigger the trailer, the more the tail wags the dog, especially towing with a smaller vehicle. Be sure you get a weight leveling hitch and sway bars.
2gypsies1
Explorer III
Nov 11, 2016
You mention carrying 560 lb. in your trailer. You will be amazed how poundage adds up. Typically, full-timer RVers add 1500-2000 lb/person counting everything stored in the RV. This not only includes clothes/shoes for all seasons but the refrigerator food, pantry items, pots/pans/dishes/glasses, maybe a crockpot, toaster, coffee pot, linens, lots of misc., lawn chairs, BBQ grill, water hoses, sewer equipment, propane weight, any sports equipment, fishing/play things, extra drinks (they're usually bought by the case), leveling blocks, tools, space heater, laundry/cleaning stuff, toiltries, medicines, extra rolls of paper towels, toilet paper, perhaps books/games, patio rug and other things. Think it out where you're going to store it all in the small trailer and how much it will weigh.
camp-n-family
Explorer
Nov 11, 2016
There will be a lot of people chiming in about how it's bad to tow with a mid size SUV or near its ratings. There is nothing wrong with either. Will other vehicles tow it better? Sure, but what you have will tow what you're considering just fine.

You're going to be limited by your payload and hitch rating. 5000lbs loaded max for the hitch will pretty much max you out on payload too with the weights you list. Won't hurt anything. Obviously less would be better but 5k will be fine. The same frame and driveline in the V8 4Runner is rated for 7200lbs.

The big difference between a pop up and a high wall is the added wind resistance from the frontal area. Your 5k limit is still 1500lbs below the weight the truck is rated to pull. The 4.7l with 320ft/lbs of torque has plenty of power to tow 5k and the added wind resistance of a high wall.

When you are deciding on a trailer, use its actual delivered weight, not the fictional brochure weight. Newer trailers have a yellow weight sticker as it left the factory. If it doesn't, see if the dealer will weigh it as part of the deal. You may want to upgrade from the squishy p rated tires on the SUV and air them up. Turn off the air ride when hooking up and adjusting the hitch then turn it back on or it won't be accurate.
DrewE
Explorer II
Nov 11, 2016
BarleyCrusher wrote:
Help me understand why. Yes, I'd prefer to tow something large and comfortable, but I don't want to break my vehicle or compromise our safety.

Let me start over.

My TV GVWR is 6150lbs. Vehicle with full tank of gas, me and my family, and our camping stuff weighs about 5580lbs. Owners manual says it can tow 6500lbs, but the hitch is only rated to 5000lbs. What other numbers make a difference?

What weight range should I be looking for? What kind of length is ideal, how long is too long?

How much different is towing a 4000lb TT vs towing a 4000lb pop-up? Maybe that's what I'm not understanding.

EDIT: Factory tow package comes with a transmission cooler, which I just verified is installed in my TV.

With a load of people, the axle weight limits and/or gross vehicle weight limit will generally be the limiting factor for the weight you can tow with an SUV. The maximum tow rating generally only coincides with a quite lightly loaded tow vehicle (for SUVs, somewhat less so for some other vehicles such as many full sized vans). A weight distributing hitch can, within reason, shift some of the tongue weight from the rear axle to the front axle, but that doesn't do anything to help the GVWR.

The difference between towing a travel trailer and a popup of similar weight is the frontal area and hence wind resistance of the trailer. A travel trailer acts something like a drag chute behind your vehicle and puts a considerably greater strain on the drivetrain. (The side area of a travel trailer also makes it more affected by side winds, and that can make the handling of the setup rather more dicey, particularly when you're close to the limits of what the vehicle can handle.)
BarleyCrusher
Explorer
Nov 11, 2016
Help me understand why. Yes, I'd prefer to tow something large and comfortable, but I don't want to break my vehicle or compromise our safety.

Let me start over.

My TV GVWR is 6150lbs. Vehicle with full tank of gas, me and my family, and our camping stuff weighs about 5580lbs. Owners manual says it can tow 6500lbs, but the hitch is only rated to 5000lbs. What other numbers make a difference?

What weight range should I be looking for? What kind of length is ideal, how long is too long?

How much different is towing a 4000lb TT vs towing a 4000lb pop-up? Maybe that's what I'm not understanding.

EDIT: Factory tow package comes with a transmission cooler, which I just verified is installed in my TV.