Pulling A Fifth Wheel vs. Bumper Pull

[DallasSteve]

I've been researching travel trailers and I'm not sure yet whether I want a fifth wheel or a bumper pull trailer. I've read more than once that a fifth wheel is easier to handle/more stable on the road. I've heard others claim there's not much difference if they are set up correctly. Part of my hesitation on going with a fifth wheel is losing the truck bed, the additional tow capacity needed, the additional height, the additional cost. But they are nice. And I will probably put several thousand miles per year on it so doing that with more tranquility would be nice.

Can some of you who have pulled large trailers (over 35 feet) of both varieties give me your opinion about the difference in feel on the road?

(Moderator, if this would be better under General RV or somewhere else feel free to move it)

Thanks

Steve

[horton333]

"To each their own, but a 5er is naturally more stable, simple physics. There is a reason that 5er don't need sway control devices."

As documented below considering the physics of the fifth wheel must have greater sway forces to both wind and torsional problems, that's why the manufacturers recommend at least twice as much weight forward (and so a much stronger truck) to compensate.
The other sway control method 5th wheels use is to move the pivot point to slightly forward of the rear wheels. This is highly effective at reducing sway but it dominates the use of the entire truck bed.
TT owners can use their bed, and buy a lot cheaper truck for the addition of some much cheaper sway control on the hitch itself.

[rhagfo]

myredracer wrote:
A lot of folks just don't know how to minimize sway in a TT or take the time to set things up right.

Our TT is "only" 29' but have no issues with sway or handling. Have a Reese DC WDH but also added shocks to the TT and put HD Bilsteins in the F250. The truck has a longer wheelbase with reg. cab & 8' bed which also helps. All tires are inflated to sidewall max. except fronts on the trucks (@75). Took me a whole season of fiddling with the DC WDH to get it all optimized. We tow at 65 mph max. NO problem with sway (ever). I love mountain curves at 65 mph - TT & TV together handles like sports car (well, sort of,lol). The only times it gets challenging is when there is a strong gusting side wind and any TT/WDH setup will be affected and a FW also. We were on one stretch of interstate in Wa. that often gets high gusting winds and we were told by a local that he has seen many FWs blown clear over due to being taller.

We would hate to lose the space in the back of the truck. It's always got lots of "stuff" in it - firewood, campfire in a can, recliners, sat. dish, sewer hoses and more.


Some insist a FW is the only way to go and some will insist a TT is better. Glass 1/2 full, six of one, all depends... We like everything being on the same level in a TT. DW has had on-going issues with vertigo and I have a bad back and the extra steps in a FW wouldn't work for us. FWs *seem* to be better appointed inside and have stronger frames. Some ultralite TTs can have issues because they are built the least substantial possible in order to save weight. If you look at the total package cost of a FW/TT and truck, a TT will be less. You could take the savings and buy a nicer truck or TT...

Only took a full season to get it dialed in! :S

Our 5er was almost dialed in on the 250 mile drive home from the dealer.

The Loosing the Bed, unless you are like the Dutchman and your livelihood is in the canopy on the bed, that is bogus. Your list of stuff, is what I carry in the basement, and don't need to pack and unpack each trip. The stinky slinky is in a fence post under the 5er.

We have a best time of 1.5 hours from off work to out the gate of the storage yard for an unplanned weekend.
Heck we came back from a two week Christmas visit to Ireland and 7.5 hours after stepping into the house after the flight home were once again out the gate to the coast. We needed to eat and take a couple hour nap before leaving.

To each their own, but a 5er is naturally more stable, simple physics. There is a reason that 5er don't need sway control devices.

[The_real_wild1]

I didn't read through all of this but the best thing you can do is go to a bunch of rv dealers. Look at both and decide which is the best layout for you. Then get if you don't already have the proper truck to tow it.

[Lantley]

RandACampin wrote:

fulltimedaniel wrote:

Goostoff wrote:
If a bumper hitch was more stable I would think the trucking industry would have adapted to it decades ago. I mean a 53 foot van trailer that is 13 feet tall has just got to be crazy unstable right?

The reason the 5th wheel was adapted is WEIGHT not stability. You cant put 30k on any bumper pull type system. ( this weight is in todays terms of course) As for space you get more space with a step down trailer such as a furniture van than with a flat floor higher trailer.

And if I am correct it predates the bumper pull system we have known for a very long time.

The problem I see is that some seem to feel a bit invincible with their 5th wheels because of mistaken notions like this. This only adds to the problems when the unexpected happens and they find out there are alot of things that can go wrong in a big hurry.

And a final word on stability a 5th wheel has a tremendous amount of weight much higher off the ground than the typical BP trlr. This raises the center of gravity and THAT is not good for stability.

Either type if loaded and balance and DRIVEN correctly are just fine. There is no hard evidence to say one is more or less stable than the other.

Can't put 30K on a bumper pull of any kind? BS! What about thisthis "bumper pull system"? or this other one ?

Where's the bumper?

[myredracer]

A lot of folks just don't know how to minimize sway in a TT or take the time to set things up right.

Our TT is "only" 29' but have no issues with sway or handling. Have a Reese DC WDH but also added shocks to the TT and put HD Bilsteins in the F250. The truck has a longer wheelbase with reg. cab & 8' bed which also helps. All tires are inflated to sidewall max. except fronts on the trucks (@75). Took me a whole season of fiddling with the DC WDH to get it all optimized. We tow at 65 mph max. NO problem with sway (ever). I love mountain curves at 65 mph - TT & TV together handles like sports car (well, sort of,lol). The only times it gets challenging is when there is a strong gusting side wind and any TT/WDH setup will be affected and a FW also. We were on one stretch of interstate in Wa. that often gets high gusting winds and we were told by a local that he has seen many FWs blown clear over due to being taller.

We would hate to lose the space in the back of the truck. It's always got lots of "stuff" in it - firewood, campfire in a can, recliners, sat. dish, sewer hoses and more.

Some insist a FW is the only way to go and some will insist a TT is better. Glass 1/2 full, six of one, all depends... We like everything being on the same level in a TT. DW has had on-going issues with vertigo and I have a bad back and the extra steps in a FW wouldn't work for us. FWs *seem* to be better appointed inside and have stronger frames. Some ultralite TTs can have issues because they are built the least substantial possible in order to save weight. If you look at the total package cost of a FW/TT and truck, a TT will be less. You could take the savings and buy a nicer truck or TT...

[Rancher_Will]

We have had only 5th Wheel RVs for over 50 years. So I have no real actual experience with others. However, over the years, while on our trips I often visit with the drivers who work full time towing all models of RVs from the factories to dealers. Some of these drivers have pulled hundreds of RV's. When the subject has come up in our visits, every one has said that they prefer to pull 5th Wheels rather than TT's since the 5th Wheel RVs pull better.

[RandACampin]

fulltimedaniel wrote:

Goostoff wrote:
If a bumper hitch was more stable I would think the trucking industry would have adapted to it decades ago. I mean a 53 foot van trailer that is 13 feet tall has just got to be crazy unstable right?

The reason the 5th wheel was adapted is WEIGHT not stability. You cant put 30k on any bumper pull type system. ( this weight is in todays terms of course) As for space you get more space with a step down trailer such as a furniture van than with a flat floor higher trailer.

And if I am correct it predates the bumper pull system we have known for a very long time.

The problem I see is that some seem to feel a bit invincible with their 5th wheels because of mistaken notions like this. This only adds to the problems when the unexpected happens and they find out there are alot of things that can go wrong in a big hurry.

And a final word on stability a 5th wheel has a tremendous amount of weight much higher off the ground than the typical BP trlr. This raises the center of gravity and THAT is not good for stability.

Either type if loaded and balance and DRIVEN correctly are just fine. There is no hard evidence to say one is more or less stable than the other.

Can't put 30K on a bumper pull of any kind? BS! What about thisthis "bumper pull system"? or this other one ?

[fulltimedaniel]

Goostoff wrote:
If a bumper hitch was more stable I would think the trucking industry would have adapted to it decades ago. I mean a 53 foot van trailer that is 13 feet tall has just got to be crazy unstable right?

The reason the 5th wheel was adapted is WEIGHT not stability. You cant put 30k on any bumper pull type system. ( this weight is in todays terms of course) As for space you get more space with a step down trailer such as a furniture van than with a flat floor higher trailer.

And if I am correct it predates the bumper pull system we have known for a very long time.

The problem I see is that some seem to feel a bit invincible with their 5th wheels because of mistaken notions like this. This only adds to the problems when the unexpected happens and they find out there are alot of things that can go wrong in a big hurry.

And a final word on stability a 5th wheel has a tremendous amount of weight much higher off the ground than the typical BP trlr. This raises the center of gravity and THAT is not good for stability.

Either type if loaded and balance and DRIVEN correctly are just fine. There is no hard evidence to say one is more or less stable than the other.

[horton333]

Goostoff wrote:
If a bumper hitch was more stable I would think the trucking industry would have adapted to it decades ago. I mean a 53 foot van trailer that is 13 feet tall has just got to be crazy unstable right?

The trucks carry very heavy weight, like many 5th wheels, that requires the direct loading over the wheels. Same reason why trucks have more tires supporting that weight, as do many pickup trucks pulling 5th wheels, for weight carry ability not for more stability.
Also with pup trucks the second trailer is not directly mounted over the wheels (they have to have very long tongues to limit the weight transfer forward, which contributes to the regulatory length concerns)

[dodge_guy]

Goostoff wrote:
If a bumper hitch was more stable I would think the trucking industry would have adapted to it decades ago. I mean a 53 foot van trailer that is 13 feet tall has just got to be crazy unstable right?

One of the reasons they do it is because it allows for more cargo in a 65foot length, the max allowed on US highways. if they were bumper pulls the trailers would be about 10 feet shorter.

[Goostoff]

If a bumper hitch was more stable I would think the trucking industry would have adapted to it decades ago. I mean a 53 foot van trailer that is 13 feet tall has just got to be crazy unstable right?

[DallasSteve]

horton333 wrote:

DallasSteve wrote:
I'm getting a lot of thoughtful, interesting replies. Thank you.

Horton, you said the Hensley hitch puts the pivot point further forward than a 5th wheel. How can that be? I looked at a photo of the hitch and it doesn't look significantly different than other WD hitches, to my untrained eye. I was trying to price it and it looks like the one for big trailers is around $3,000. Is that correct?

It moves the *effective* pivot point ahead. It does that with a sloppy coupling that moves side to side which changes the angle of the connection.

Horton

Thanks for the response. Your comment about the coupling moving side-to-side was enough for me to catch on to what they are doing and how it can move the effective pivot point further forward. That's an interesting concept. I think if I choose a bumper pull I would start out with a simpler hitch, but if I'm not satisfied with the way it pulls I might invest the extra money for a Horton.

[horton333]

dodge guy wrote:
Ide like to see how stable a 5`er would be with 10% TW!

Bingo eh. The manufacturers know that 5th wheels are less stable, hence the recommended doubling of the transfered weight to help compensate.

[horton333]

rhagfo wrote:


While the Hensley is a great design and works well, it has its limits, once the angle between the TV and trailer gets past a certain point the virtual pivot point starts moving back quickly. Weigh a fiver that point never moves.

I posted a link on where to find information on how the Hensley works in an earlier post. You should check that out to learn how they work. The effective pivot point change is fixed by the geometry and it only changes if the tow vehicle or trailer dimensions change.
The heavier weight on the 5th wheel is not all down low as you state, the center of mass is significantly higher than the TT and more importantly the connection to the truck is significantly higher. That is just the weight, not including the much higher wind loads on the 5th wheel I was describing. If you pay enough money extra on a tougher truck, as you must to handle the 5th wheel extra weight, it compensates some but it's still working harder to maintain stability.

[dodge_guy]

Ide like to see how stable a 5`er would be with 10% TW!