Pushing the Limits and My Moderation Philosophy

[LLeopold]

Originally posted Sept. 21, 2007 as a reply to the question, "Why so many grumpy people full of opinions here?"

The moderators of the Open Roads Forum are volunteers, giving of our time and talent as fellow RVers and campers, to this forum to help promote our hobby.

We are neither omniscient, omnipresent nor omnipotent (Admin might be, however). If there are rules violations we may or may not, encounter them and advise the others, so that appropriate action might be taken. We rely on our fellow members to advise us by clicking on the "Notify Moderator" link. That link also provides room for comments. It is not, nor should it be considered, "tattling" for a member to advise a moderator about a rules violation.

[soapbox on]
Let me remind you that the Open Roads Forum is a family site and is now one of the largest forums, by membership, on the internet (over 200,000 members). When you post, it is not read only by other adults, but also by minor-aged children, who have an interest in RVing and camping. The forum is for the RV consumer community and only that community. That's the forum owner's (AGI) rules we abide by.

Let me also make it perfectly clear, there are plenty of other forums with much looser rules than this one, and that the participation is, by far, much less than this one (and more than one has been shut down by the sponsoring ISP due to the excesses of the few). If you want to exercise your "rights of free speech" on issues other than RVing or camping, you also have the right to post them elsewhere. Also remember that any reference to the Bill of Rights is to limit the government power over its citizens. It has absolutely no relevance to this forum or to its rules.
[soapbox off]

Sustaining the forum rules is a primary reason this forum has succeeded when so many others have failed. If there is a perceived error in judgment by a moderator (read my opening statements), we still would like to know about it. First, contact the moderator of the forum if they already have not PMed you about it. Personally, I try to head off any confrontation by PMing a member and giving them the opportunity to edit their thread or post, or an opportunity to explain why the post should stand as is. If I get a less than satisfactory (i.e. confrontational) response, I will edit the post for them, or yes, delete the thread entirely. And yes, that is how I moderate Beginning RVing and Tent Camping; I have, from time-to-time posted my method of moderating in those forums, and yes, have been called on an error in judgment by "my" members from time-to-time; again, I am human, too. For those who are involved in Scouting, you will know what I mean when I say that I try to "follow the 12" when evaluating posts and intentions of the originators of the posts (PM me if you want to know what this means).

Each of the moderators has their own method of implementing the spirit of the moderation guidelines (forum rules). Again, when there is a question, we typically consult each other. But then, Beginning RVing and Tent Camping does not get the same amount of traffic than the other forums, so I actually have the opportunity to respond more frequently and intimately, with the members than, perhaps, the other moderators. I always welcome input from the members (as do my fellow moderators) so that I can provide a service to members who share my passion for the outdoors lifestyle. The forum administration picks its moderators from the membership based on their participation in the forum and how they are received by other members (and moderators).

Again, I state, if you have a question of the moderator regarding your or another's post, free free to contact them to get clarification. If you do not get a response from that moderator (again there may be a delay, hey we like to RV, too!), feel free to contact another moderator.

But, one thing you do not want to do; you do not want to get into a confrontation with the moderator(s), nor the Administrators. You will want to keep the issue civil. It'd be like getting into a confrontation with a campground host or the rangers. You might be "right," but will the aggravation in the meantime be worth it?

NOTE: I will allow the thread to remain open for a few more posts, but if I see anymore posts that clearly violate the Forum Rules, I will close the thread. Call it censorship if you want, but that's how I moderate. I make sure that we all follow the rules.

[2012Coleman]

Personally, my feelings are not hurt, not do I feel my constitutional rights have been violated due to a post of mine being edited or moderated on an internet forum.

[GMandJM]

Rather than just a few meaningless words, why not actually say something that backs up your side of the argument?

My personal (un)faves are the posters who hit the "quote" button, encompass several LONG posts and/or photos and then all they have to add to the conversation are some snarky/informationless/humorless words like "Oh boy!" or "What-ev".

It takes up alot of real estate on my screen and says nothing other than that poster thinks someone else is wrong for some reason they're not willing to elaborate.

Okay, so if you think that other person is wrong....tell us why.

As for some mods being on an unhealthy, egotistical power trip.... no comment other than to commend you on your appropriately-placed comma. Nice touch. 😉

[K3WE]

GMandJM wrote:
Asking someone "Do you feel better now?" or similar, serves no good or valuable purpose and contributes nothing to whatever the subject of the thread is.

...no, it's not that absolute. I get it that, TECHNICALLY, the post was a "personal attack", but that doesn't mean that it might have been:

-an appropriate and fair comeback to someone who was inappropriately bashing the topic at hand.

-a very good educational comment for the person it was intended for. I've been involved in some much rougher forums, said some stupid stuff, and been flamed for it. The result is that I am a smarter forum member there and here.

A little bit of free speech (yes, it has to be reasonable) is a good thing, and education can happen (which is also a good thing).

As to what the moderator should or shouldn't have done- I'll support the mod if they say, "I was afraid the thread would degrade into a flame war".

I get it that mods cannot always be perfect- but the simple act of acknowledgement that they are not perfect ("Sorry, maybe your post had some validity, but I had to make a quick judgment call").

That goes a long way in the mods doing a good job, versus being on an unhealthy, egotistical power trip.

[GMandJM]

That's the NaughtyWord Editor, Jim. Alot of us have noticed it lately. Even Elizabeth from Marcus' Rapid Response Team got edited because a username contained letters that spelled a word not allowed by the NWE.

It doesn't take into account leading and/or trailing letters, so Pe****ch (Pet Watch as just one word) gets edited because of the letters in the middle.

It's a bit silly. 🙂

[Jim_Shoe]

A little off subject, but lately I've noticed that some words, which have a perfectly clean meaning in context are being starred (****) because they are also a nickname for some body part. I doubt that its being done by a moderator, but more likely by a "robo" censor. Example: a nickname for Richard the Lionheart.

[GMandJM]

It seemed inappropriate to add how many posts you had deleted.

Enlightening to know they keep track of it though.

One thing Barney said (and later edited) was that he didn't have time. Perhaps that's part of the issue. Maybe more or different moderators are needed?

I could recommend a few nice, helpful individuals who would probably make time to help out. 🙂

[spoon059]

GMandJM wrote:
Yeah, I get you, Spoon. That "grocery getter" thing...ugh. Them's considered "fighting words" in some parts.

There's an unwritten rule of etiquette that you just shouldn't insult a man's equipment or his abilities (i.e. his tow vehicle, backing in, hooking up, etceteras). It's as bad as insulting his wife or something.

I imagine that your "Do you feel better now?" reply was your version of restraint and it probably wasn't even close to what you really wanted to say. Unfortunately, it was a little too short on substance to back up your side of the argument, so it got "moderated". It doesn't pay to argue.

Exactly. The guy that wrote it was trying to get at me and trying to insult me. Rather than come down to his level, I simply asked if he felt better. I think the mod took the easy route out and deleted my post, rather than take a stand that there is no need to bash any particular class of vehicle.

Then to get one more dig at me, he has to point out that I have had however many deleted posts. That's news to me. I only knew of the one. Well... I can imagine this one gets yanked too...

Whatever. Its his rodeo, I'm just here for the show.

[GMandJM]

spoon059 wrote:

GMandJM wrote:
Asking someone "Do you feel better now?" or similar, serves no good or valuable purpose and contributes nothing to whatever the subject of the thread is.

Why not just say "You seem to be attacking me personally. Let's just agree that we disagree here."

(EDIT: Just gotta say "POWER to moderate" made me giggle. Thanks for that. If only there were a "belly-laugh" emoticon *hint*hint* 🙂 ).

Well I don't believe that insulting someone and saying that a truck is a "grocery getter" serves any good or contributes to the subject. By deleting my post and allowing legitimate personal attacks to stand is asinine and, in my opinion, poor/biased moderating. That is why I asked Barney how MY post was excessive, but the provoking post was acceptable. He stopped answering my PM's at that point.

Yeah, I get you, Spoon. That "grocery getter" thing...ugh. Them's considered "fighting words" in some parts.

There's an unwritten rule of etiquette that you just shouldn't insult a man's equipment or his abilities (i.e. his tow vehicle, backing in, hooking up, etceteras). It's as bad as insulting his wife or something.

I imagine that your "Do you feel better now?" reply was your version of restraint and it probably wasn't even close to what you really wanted to say. Unfortunately, it was a little too short on substance to back up your side of the argument, so it got "moderated". It doesn't pay to argue.

At least you got a PM when you asked why. I once clicked on the "notify a mod" button and asked about why something was moderated versus something that wasn't and I got an e-mail reply saying he had no clue what I was talking about and where was my evidence.

Who knew mods here had access to our e-mail addresses.

Anyway, thanks for the giggle about the great and powerful mods. And thanks-not-as-much for the Bob's Beats "Tell me you got the power" ear worm I've had all day! 😉

[BarneyS]

spoon059 wrote:
Yea... you ARE the moderator that deleted it.

snip...

Sorry, but that is impossible. I do not have , and never have had, any moderating privileges in the tow vehicle forum.
You have made a mistake.
Perhaps the subject post was in the Towing forum which I do moderate.

Edit:
I think I remember that thread now and still fail to see how a remark about a truck can be considered a personal attack or insult. That remark was someones opinion about the subject at hand and not about you. Last I knew, you could not insult a truck. Your remark that was deleted was NOT about the subject but was against the person.

Another mistake is you said "The only time I have ever had a post deleted on ANY forum was here... in the tow vehicles."
Since Jan 2014 up to today you have had 30 posts deleted from various forums. I didn't look back any farther than that.

No need to debate this anymore, I am out of here. Now you see why one response to a PM from a member is all you will normally get from me.
Barney

[spoon059]

GMandJM wrote:
Asking someone "Do you feel better now?" or similar, serves no good or valuable purpose and contributes nothing to whatever the subject of the thread is.

Why not just say "You seem to be attacking me personally. Let's just agree that we disagree here."

(EDIT: Just gotta say "POWER to moderate" made me giggle. Thanks for that. If only there were a "belly-laugh" emoticon *hint*hint* 🙂 ).

Well I don't believe that insulting someone and saying that a truck is a "grocery getter" serves any good or contributes to the subject. By deleting my post and allowing legitimate personal attacks to stand is asinine and, in my opinion, poor/biased moderating. That is why I asked Barney how MY post was excessive, but the provoking post was acceptable. He stopped answering my PM's at that point.

[GMandJM]

Asking someone "Do you feel better now?" or similar, serves no good or valuable purpose and contributes nothing to whatever the subject of the thread is.

Why not just say "You seem to be attacking me personally. Let's just agree that we disagree here."

(EDIT: Just gotta say "POWER to moderate" made me giggle. Thanks for that. If only there were a "belly-laugh" emoticon *hint*hint* 🙂 ).

[spoon059]

Yea... you ARE the moderator that deleted it.

I still disagree that it was a "personal attack" by asking if he felt better be attempting to belittle me through the internet. You have your opinion, and I happen to vehemently disagree with it. I have read MUCH worse and personal ATTACKS on here. I phrased a question to make that person stop and think about the mean spirited comment that he made to me. I didn't attack him, didn't call him names, didn't threaten him.

Whatever... it is what it is. I 100% disagree with you. You have the power to moderate, I can either take my toys and go home or just live with your decision. I've lived with it.

[BarneyS]

spoon059 wrote:
Snip...

The only time I have ever had a post deleted on ANY forum was here... in the tow vehicles. Someone had been slamming half ton trucks, you know, the usual. I simply quoted their juvenile response and replied, "Do you feel better now?". That post was deleted. I inquired to the mod about it, he replied that my post was a personal attack. I disagreed that it was a personal attack and asked how my comment was worse than the other guy's comments. Never got a response back.

Snip...

Spoon,
I am not the moderator involved in your example but had I been, I would have deleted your post also. I cannot see any situation in which your statement "Do you feel better now" would not be a personal attack on the other member. Your post may or may not have been worse or better than the other members posts but it WAS a personal question directed at him about his feelings. That is a personal attack and deserves deletion in my opinion.

As for not hearing back from the moderator, most mods, me included, are far too busy to keep PMing back and forth. Most times, after PMing a member about a deletion or edit the member will try to argue back and forth. I used to try to answer each of their PM's or e-mails but quickly found out that it is a useless endeavor. It turned out to be a waste of time in most cases. Now, I will answer a PM about a post once and then leave it alone.

I also try to PM a member when I delete a post unless it is a senior member and it is quite obvious why the post was taken out. You would be quite surprised at how many of our members try to push the envelope when posting.
Barney

[spoon059]

GMandJM wrote:

2012Coleman wrote:
...I actually think that some posts are under moderated. Personal attacks seem to go on forever...

You bring up a very valid point. We've all seen those personal attacks and they serve no good purpose.

The only time I have ever had a post deleted on ANY forum was here... in the tow vehicles. Someone had been slamming half ton trucks, you know, the usual. I simply quoted their juvenile response and replied, "Do you feel better now?". That post was deleted. I inquired to the mod about it, he replied that my post was a personal attack. I disagreed that it was a personal attack and asked how my comment was worse than the other guy's comments. Never got a response back.

Such is life. It is hard to find a balance that everyone finds perfect. Sometimes these threads get a little heated, but you get great information. Sometimes threads just derail. Its a thankless job and I think most mods do a great job. Sometimes things get through, sometimes I disagree with decisions... My personal experience was over a year ago, somehow I managed to survive it and am still here... hopefully a little more wise.