Pushing the Limits and My Moderation Philosophy

[LLeopold]

Originally posted Sept. 21, 2007 as a reply to the question, "Why so many grumpy people full of opinions here?"

The moderators of the Open Roads Forum are volunteers, giving of our time and talent as fellow RVers and campers, to this forum to help promote our hobby.

We are neither omniscient, omnipresent nor omnipotent (Admin might be, however). If there are rules violations we may or may not, encounter them and advise the others, so that appropriate action might be taken. We rely on our fellow members to advise us by clicking on the "Notify Moderator" link. That link also provides room for comments. It is not, nor should it be considered, "tattling" for a member to advise a moderator about a rules violation.

[soapbox on]
Let me remind you that the Open Roads Forum is a family site and is now one of the largest forums, by membership, on the internet (over 200,000 members). When you post, it is not read only by other adults, but also by minor-aged children, who have an interest in RVing and camping. The forum is for the RV consumer community and only that community. That's the forum owner's (AGI) rules we abide by.

Let me also make it perfectly clear, there are plenty of other forums with much looser rules than this one, and that the participation is, by far, much less than this one (and more than one has been shut down by the sponsoring ISP due to the excesses of the few). If you want to exercise your "rights of free speech" on issues other than RVing or camping, you also have the right to post them elsewhere. Also remember that any reference to the Bill of Rights is to limit the government power over its citizens. It has absolutely no relevance to this forum or to its rules.
[soapbox off]

Sustaining the forum rules is a primary reason this forum has succeeded when so many others have failed. If there is a perceived error in judgment by a moderator (read my opening statements), we still would like to know about it. First, contact the moderator of the forum if they already have not PMed you about it. Personally, I try to head off any confrontation by PMing a member and giving them the opportunity to edit their thread or post, or an opportunity to explain why the post should stand as is. If I get a less than satisfactory (i.e. confrontational) response, I will edit the post for them, or yes, delete the thread entirely. And yes, that is how I moderate Beginning RVing and Tent Camping; I have, from time-to-time posted my method of moderating in those forums, and yes, have been called on an error in judgment by "my" members from time-to-time; again, I am human, too. For those who are involved in Scouting, you will know what I mean when I say that I try to "follow the 12" when evaluating posts and intentions of the originators of the posts (PM me if you want to know what this means).

Each of the moderators has their own method of implementing the spirit of the moderation guidelines (forum rules). Again, when there is a question, we typically consult each other. But then, Beginning RVing and Tent Camping does not get the same amount of traffic than the other forums, so I actually have the opportunity to respond more frequently and intimately, with the members than, perhaps, the other moderators. I always welcome input from the members (as do my fellow moderators) so that I can provide a service to members who share my passion for the outdoors lifestyle. The forum administration picks its moderators from the membership based on their participation in the forum and how they are received by other members (and moderators).

Again, I state, if you have a question of the moderator regarding your or another's post, free free to contact them to get clarification. If you do not get a response from that moderator (again there may be a delay, hey we like to RV, too!), feel free to contact another moderator.

But, one thing you do not want to do; you do not want to get into a confrontation with the moderator(s), nor the Administrators. You will want to keep the issue civil. It'd be like getting into a confrontation with a campground host or the rangers. You might be "right," but will the aggravation in the meantime be worth it?

NOTE: I will allow the thread to remain open for a few more posts, but if I see anymore posts that clearly violate the Forum Rules, I will close the thread. Call it censorship if you want, but that's how I moderate. I make sure that we all follow the rules.

[Chuck_thehammer]

Thank You for all the WORK ... and a thankless one at that.

When joining.. the rules were made available... and by joining YOU accepted them..

You could NOT pay me to do this type of job...

[GMandJM]

My post was not referring to you nor your post, Jim. It was about the original post from LLeopold. I just didn't hit quote since the OP was so long.

Aplogies for any confusion.

[OkSixpack]

GMandJM wrote:
I'm at a loss on where to even begin on that...

Perhaps, It's better to just join the others in saying "Thank you for your service"?

We're a wild, grumpy, grouchy, crotchety, ill-tempered, unmannered, opinionated, unruly, verbose bunch around here. Nice of you to put up with us.

Cheers!

If that was about my post, why do you not know where to begin? I was being honest, but not rude. I won't go into the problem I had once, except to say it wasn't pleasant.
Jim

Clarified through P.M.s! Thanks GMandJM.
Jim

[wa8yxm]

I do not moderate any RV forum of any kind but I do have moderator privileges in another cyber space.

The original poster speaks the truth.

[BubbaChris]

Thanks for your work and contributions Lou.

One of the phrases I learned about forums back in the CompuServe days was to "focus on the problem and not the personality" which allows me to read through some interesting stuff and then respond directly to the OP's question. And of course now and again I ignore my own advice. 😉

[dspencer]

I actually thought I was wrong once, turned out I was mistaken. :W

All joking aside as others has said the mods have a thankless job and I think they do a great job. Kudos to the mods.

[GMandJM]

LLeopold wrote:
... and, yes, even some of my own posts were edited or deleted; and that's not unique to this forum, but I've had it happen in other forums I frequent...

Seriously? You had YOUR posts moderated?? Ya know, I'm shocked by that.

Admittedly there has been some "mod baiting" going on. I confess to being "the beard" on one in the Ask Marcus forum. (We had bets going on how long it would stay up.) For that, I humbly apologize. It was all in fun, really. And maybe due to a little frustration, as well.

Let's hope these fora don't become similar to a certain other (you know which one) which has an associated campground review site. The owner of those two sites has exhibited such a stranglehold on content that it makes the sites less valuable than they could be to its users.

In one instance someone there was not even allowed to MENTION a site that could have been an extremely useful resource to an RVer asking questions about a certain brand of motorhome. Apparently that forum's owner deemed it to be "mining" their membership and an attempt to poach its users.

Just because someone mentions another site, brand or product here, that doesn't mean we are trying to sell it. Please keep the spirit of the post in mind before "moderating" it under the sales rule. (And thank you for being consistent about that rule when there really IS someone breaking it.)

By the way, it seems much of the stuff that gets "moderated" here were originally attempts at levity. It's harmless, impersonal, not mean spirited and usually pretty darn funny. Sometimes we need that. (And we could use a "belly laugh" emoji, if you're taking requests.)

So, again, thank you for taking the time to open a dialogue with us users on what it's like to be a moderator on RV.net. No doubt some of us will try to better mind our manners. No promises, of course. 🙂

And, by the way, I know some of us are thinking it so I'll take the liberty of just saying it:

Kudos on your mad skills with the written word, Lou! Your original post is really quite impressive.

~j-Half (don't blame G for this)

[LLeopold]

I've been talking with a couple of members privately about some of the perceived over-moderation in other areas of the forum and, yes, even some of my own posts were edited or deleted; and that's not unique to this forum, but I've had it happen in other forums I frequent.

My advice to them was something I started doing a few years ago when it came to expressing my opinion:

What I learned to do was to surround the opinion with something like:
[IMO]
...
[/IMO]

or, if I'm feeling a bit more assertive:
[IMNSHO]
...
[IMNSHO]

or, text followed by... (IMO, YMMV)

These qualifiers sometimes saves the post as it clearly states that I am not speaking as an authority (or simply being a smart @$$ on the topic, which I should expect would be edited or deleted - this last one sometimes comes as a shock to my fellow mods 🙂 ).

That can sometimes make the difference...

[4X4Dodger]

LLeopold wrote:
Originally posted Sept. 21, 2007 as a reply to the question, "Why so many grumpy people full of opinions here?"

The moderators of the Open Roads Forum are volunteers, giving of our time and talent as fellow RVers and campers, to this forum to help promote our hobby.

We are neither omniscient, omnipresent nor omnipotent (Admin might be, however). If there are rules violations we may or may not, encounter them and advise the others, so that appropriate action might be taken. We rely on our fellow members to advise us by clicking on the "Notify Moderator" link. That link also provides room for comments. It is not, nor should it be considered, "tattling" for a member to advise a moderator about a rules violation.

[soapbox on]
Let me remind you that the Open Roads Forum is a family site and is now one of the largest forums, by membership, on the internet (over 200,000 members). When you post, it is not read only by other adults, but also by minor-aged children, who have an interest in RVing and camping. The forum is for the RV consumer community and only that community. That's the forum owner's (AGI) rules we abide by.

Let me also make it perfectly clear, there are plenty of other forums with much looser rules than this one, and that the participation is, by far, much less than this one (and more than one has been shut down by the sponsoring ISP due to the excesses of the few). If you want to exercise your "rights of free speech" on issues other than RVing or camping, you also have the right to post them elsewhere. Also remember that any reference to the Bill of Rights is to limit the government power over its citizens. It has absolutely no relevance to this forum or to its rules.
[soapbox off]

Sustaining the forum rules is a primary reason this forum has succeeded when so many others have failed. If there is a perceived error in judgment by a moderator (read my opening statements), we still would like to know about it. First, contact the moderator of the forum if they already have not PMed you about it. Personally, I try to head off any confrontation by PMing a member and giving them the opportunity to edit their thread or post, or an opportunity to explain why the post should stand as is. If I get a less than satisfactory (i.e. confrontational) response, I will edit the post for them, or yes, delete the thread entirely. And yes, that is how I moderate Beginning RVing and Tent Camping; I have, from time-to-time posted my method of moderating in those forums, and yes, have been called on an error in judgment by "my" members from time-to-time; again, I am human, too. For those who are involved in Scouting, you will know what I mean when I say that I try to "follow the 12" when evaluating posts and intentions of the originators of the posts (PM me if you want to know what this means).

Each of the moderators has their own method of implementing the spirit of the moderation guidelines (forum rules). Again, when there is a question, we typically consult each other. But then, Beginning RVing and Tent Camping does not get the same amount of traffic than the other forums, so I actually have the opportunity to respond more frequently and intimately, with the members than, perhaps, the other moderators. I always welcome input from the members (as do my fellow moderators) so that I can provide a service to members who share my passion for the outdoors lifestyle. The forum administration picks its moderators from the membership based on their participation in the forum and how they are received by other members (and moderators).

Again, I state, if you have a question of the moderator regarding your or another's post, free free to contact them to get clarification. If you do not get a response from that moderator (again there may be a delay, hey we like to RV, too!), feel free to contact another moderator.

But, one thing you do not want to do; you do not want to get into a confrontation with the moderator(s), nor the Administrators. You will want to keep the issue civil. It'd be like getting into a confrontation with a campground host or the rangers. You might be "right," but will the aggravation in the meantime be worth it?

NOTE: I will allow the thread to remain open for a few more posts, but if I see anymore posts that clearly violate the Forum Rules, I will close the thread. Call it censorship if you want, but that's how I moderate. I make sure that we all follow the rules.

I appreciate your outlook and reasoning on how you moderate. I only wish that a few more moderators wouldcleave closer to your way of thinking, especially as it regards PM'ing a perceived offender to ask they edit their post before just summarily shutting down an entire thread.

But I do agree with some others that there seems to be a trend for some Moderators to become Dictatorial lately.

Too often I think disagreement and dissension is mistaken for flaming or snarkiness. And "TONE" is very difficult to discern in some posts and can often be mistaken for a negative when it's meant humorously or even satirically.

The key I wish more moderators would focus on is the "Personal". When things become personal then it's time to "moderate" the discussion.

While it may be a thankless job. And it may take a great deal of time. I would point out to some of those that feel Moderators can do no wrong...they volunteer for this. Therefore my sympathy is mitigated. They WANT to do it. And this is why I think moderators have very little to complain about.

Having said that I do appreciate the work of the majority of moderators on this site, by and large they do a credible job of keeping the site "workable and readable".

[DutchmenSport]

Well, for the moderator to post such a reminder as this, there must have been some "wild" posting going on recently Somehow, I seem to miss all the action! But you know what? I've been doing a lot of camping lately. So, rather than just reading about it, I'm out doing it! Maybe that's why I've missed all the "action!"

But glad the moderators are doing all they can to keep "it" clean and a fun place to visit! Good job there Mr. Moderator!

[GMandJM]

Old-Biscuit wrote:
Most/almost all of the moderation is done very well......

Then there is just plain bias moderation with unnecessary editing/deletions.

Some of us have commented amongst ourselves about a noticable trend of "over moderation" in recent weeks.

(It might be useful to know which moderator or administrator deleted or edited a post in case the original poster wants to inquire as to reason.)

But, like The Wise Biscuit said: Such is life. 🙂

[campigloo]

I think ya'll to a tremendous job. I like the rules of the forum, especially the family atmosphere and profanity rules. That is one reason I enjoy it so much! It's hard to find that in any media forum of any type. Much like GMandJM said, you put up with a lot. Thanks!

[Old-Biscuit]

Most/almost all of the moderation is done very well......

Then there is just plain bias moderation with unnecessary editing/deletions.

That will not change and is what it is. Such is life.

[Bumpyroad]

"Again, I state, if you have a question of the moderator regarding your or another's post, free free to contact them to get clarification. If you do not get a response from that moderator (again there may be a delay, hey we like to RV, too!), feel free to contact another moderator."

several times I have asked what was the problem with my post and not gotten a response. what ever I did that was wrong, I would like to know so I avoid repeating it. Perhaps why I did not hear back in some of these instances is because upon further review, the moderator decided that deletion was not warranted.
bumpy

[Jim_Shoe]

I think the mods do an outstanding job out of love for our hobby/lifestyle. And you can't beat the price. Thanks to all the mods.