Forum Discussion
carringb wrote:
Trackrig wrote:
It's interesting that on the third accident that the guy was towing an empty car trailer when it happened.
Bill
Looked like maybe that flatbed had been modified with a tail extension? The tail end wasn't the same material as the rest, but it didn't look like a dovetail. Might have had negative tongue weight from the mods?
I thought that trailer had a low stack of lumber on it. The long lumber would have greatly reduced the tongue weight and made the trailer unstable.- Towing is serious business and should be treated as such. Even if you have a good set up, stuff can still happen. It's a good remimder for all of us. Thanks for posting that.
- Speed and sway are to entirely different things.
I would much to the 10th power have a well set-up trailer at 80 MPH than an ill handling/ swaying trailer at 55 MPH. burningman wrote:
Most of these people were going too fast for their setups. I see it all the time, the guy with the big powerful diesel towing his travel trailer, passing me at 70.
Seventy is on the low end of the chaos dial. I can't count how many times some chucklenut, in a lifted 4dr diesel bro-dozer pulling a toy hauler TT, blew my doors off, going at least 80-85. Sad part is how many of these wrecks could of been avoided, if the operator knew to point the tow vehicle where you want to end up, hit the gas and manually lock the brake controller. It's counter-intuitive and a lot to perform in a crisis, but there was plenty of time in most of the wrecks shown.
I actually watch a new trailer delivery driver do this once. He was pulling a large (35 ft +/-) trailer, with a dually. He passed me on the interstate, going at least 75, with nothing but a ball hitch, no sway or distribution. As he came off a bump, the tail started wagging the dog pretty hard. I saw the trailer snap straight as he locked up the controller, at the same time, a puff of black smoke blew out the exhaust as he gunned it. A few seconds after it was heading for being out of control, it was snapped back into line. All it took was enough experience to immediately grab the manual level on the controller and stomp on the throttle. it was over a few seconds after it started. Unfortunately, the usual instinct is to do the opposite, stand on the tow vehicle brakes and hope that you get the thing back in line before it takes control of the situation. As the video repeatedly shows, that rarely works.- Burning man, my comment 're duallies can't roll over etc, has the same meaning in my book as your longer explanation. With that said, yes my navistar is a more stable rig to tow any given trailer I have owned or do own, than either oh my 35 series duallies, SW 3500 series, or 8 lug 25 series, or lighter duty rigs down to a 76 Toyota with a 4 banger in it.
A dually can still roll, as can a tandem dually, as can larger and heavier rigs. ALL can have trailers sway behind them if improperly loaded, towed etc.
Marty blt2ski wrote:
The boat went sliding away with the tail on the ground. So probably no hitch weight, or very little.
The others also probably had to little hitch weight.
Also, one of the setups was a dually. So for those saying a dually is best, better, bestest for handling sway like this. That part of video blows that theory apart! If you have a trailer going side to side, your screwed. If you get back or too somewhere, with sway issues, time to figure out what is causing said sway, fix it, then add the sway bars.
my 02 on this video.
Marty
Your post proves that research can lead to incorrect conclusions.
Duallies ARE more stable than single rear wheel trucks, and big tandem duallies are better yet. People can still crash them with improper driving or setup.
Guys get tanks stuck and even roll them. That’s why there are tank retrievers. That doesn’t prove that 63-ton tracked vehicles aren’t stable.
Most of these people were going too fast for their setups. I see it all the time, the guy with the big powerful diesel towing his travel trailer, passing me at 70.- No matter what if they were hooked up properly or correct TV I think just 'seeing' what happens when a TT flips and takes the TV along with it leaves a pretty good lasting impression.
I'd be if you asked newbies they don't even know that a swinging TT can take and flip your truck over.
For what it's worth about dealerships. I've towed for years and know how to safely set it all up.
My last TT I bought new after retiring....being old and feeling entitled for once. I told the service guy to just pick out the right hitch for my truck and set the TT up for me. Of course I paid extra for that service and I went out for a cup of coffee to wait for it.
Well when I got back he had the wrong drop hitch, truck and trailer all squewed up and down. It was glaring yet the service guy said "well here you go you are all set up." :R
Seasoned RVer's "know" what it should like when correctly and safely hooked up.
But a poor "newbie" would not have and would have driven off the way it looked.
So now I don't think so harshly when I see these going on down the road now that I know a service tech at an RV dealership could have had a hand in it. - IMHO...the video the OP posted is NOT a HOW2, but an informational video showing that this 'can' happen
Sure, those folks meeting Mr Murphy could have setups Mal-adjusted and/or improper sizing and a big ETC...
Informational so that folks would go looking for the HOW2's here or everywhere
That is the usefulness of this thread rockhillmanor wrote:
So, let's say we make people buying a camper at a dealership watch this - what's their take away? How do you make lessons from this video that can be actionable for the people watching it?
1.That they NEED to know what the correct tow vehicle, tow set up is for what RV they are buying. Or that could be the consequences.
But that's the thing. In the one clip, it was literally a dually pulling a moderately sized travel trailer. The truck was a correct tow vehicle.
I'm all for user education. Heck, it's why I started and maintain the LearnToRV website. But, I just don't think this video proves anything other than "caca happens".rockhillmanor wrote:
2. And it also shows just what can happen when driving too fast towing. My bet is on that a newbie has NO idea that you can flip ass over apple cart like in those videos when towing a trailer.
Again, it's hard to say if speed was a factor in any/many of these. It definitely had nothing to do with the boat coming off of the trailer.rockhillmanor wrote:
It would at least give them pause to think about just what they are buying AND to ask questions what can happen to their precious family if they have not thoroughly researched and learned everything related to towing BEFORE they buy a TT.
I still think newbies would benefit tremendously from viewing those videos.
I do agree a bit that it will hopefully get them to stop and think.
I think there could be WAY more value in it, if it was presented as an educational type of video. "With this setup, the problem is X and it led to this conclusion." Right now, it's just a bunch of crashes- no different than watching the 11' 8" videos where people smash into the bridge. As it is presented now, it's little more than morbid entertainment.rockhillmanor wrote:
When you full-time like I do you see it all.:R
If it helps, I do fulltime also. :)
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BenK, I didn't quote your post as this got long already. But my responses to you are basically the same- yes, this does a good job of showing that the **** can hit the fan. But, I don't think it is a good representation of what not to do. There were so many scenarios and no stopping to discuss what went wrong that I can't see it really being useful outside of shock and awe that bad stuff happens.
And, I don't think there's much you can do to combat the mindset of "it won't happen to me".
And again, let me reiterate - I'm all for education and helping people. I run a website dedicated to newbies learning to RV.- My bumper pull toy hauler hitch was set up poorly when I bought it. I relied on the RV dealership to properly configure and adjust it since I had no experience with weight distribution hitches prior to that time. I had towed utility, camper and boat trailers but none used a WDH and they either had surge brakes or no brakes at all. It took me over month to learn how the hitch functions and how the settings/adjustments interact with the trailer and tow vehicle. It wasn't until I took the initiative to learn and adjust the hitch myself that I had a good tow combination. In my case, the dealer gave me an under rated WDH for my toy hauler (which I made him swap out for a higher rated model) and the preload on the spring bars was weak due to lack of hitch head angle. Once I had the sufficiently rated hitch and properly adjusted tension, I had to drop the hitch head lower and readjust spring bar preload one more time because I was finally redistributing tongue weight.
