Answering "How Much" Questions

[jerem0621]

Sorry for this long and wordy post... I am looking for some feedback on a little project I have been working on today. Kind of a sick day for me... so I have taken the down time to try and be productive.

One of the questions many people ask in the TT, Fiver, and TV's forums is how much can I tow? Really this is two questions in one.... How much you can tow (trailer weight) is directly related to how much can you carry (payload).

I have created some charts, in an effort to help some out with correctly answering, how much can you tow and carry at the same time.

After one arrives at an understanding that their vehicle must not only tow but must also carry the tongue/pin weight... the next question is... how do I know how big of a trailer I can tow without overloading my TV? After all the tow rating is often MUCH higher than how much payload the truck has available.

Now the charts, and I wanted to ask the forum if these make sense.. if they are useful... or should be scrapped?

Basically, you take your available payload and based on the rule of thumb 13% tongue weight for TT's or 25% pin weight for fivers you get an APPROXIMATE max trailer weight... of course if your tow rating is lower than what the chart says is a match for your available payload or your GCWR is lower then the LCD rules in this number games.

Here are the charts

How to calculate available payload



Travel Trailers



Fifth Wheels



Are these useful, worthless, can be improved?

Thanks for the feedback in advanced.

Jeremiah

[jerem0621]

proxim2020 wrote:
For the secondary method, you have to count all of the drivers weight. There's no 150 lbs driver allowance for payload, only tow ratings.

Thanks, I'll make the adjustment..I thought some manufacturers included 150lb provision for the driver...but with the tire and loading sticker being govt requirement...maybe all OEM's do not include 150 lb provision anymore for the driver?

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[Community Alumni]

For the secondary method, you have to count all of the drivers weight. There's no 150 lbs driver allowance for payload, only tow ratings.

[rexlion]

Looks eerily like an IRS form and income chart! Were you inspired by your tax forms, by any chance? 😉 Nice job, it works.

[2112]

handye9 wrote:
...
There are also some clueless folks who will go exactly by the chart and when DW tells DH that MIL is riding along, he'll be asking us, if he needs a bigger truck...

Or point to the chart and say no she can't come :B

[handye9]

I think you did a nice job !!! Should make it a sticky.

Maybe, add a note to point out "loaded" trailer weight, and what that means. You know some folks will look at the chart and go buy a unit with UVW that matches their tow capacity. Then they'll wonder why their handling and performance is so bad. No doubt, some one here would tell them, a Hensley will fix that.

Maybe, another note to point out, the charts are average figures and, may not be an exact match for every individuals set up. Actual tongue / pin weights should be between XX and XX percentages. The charts are mostly to educate those who are unaware of what counts, or doesn't count, against their various ratings, and give the individual a starting point.

There are folks who are perfect in every way, they know everything, and their XXXX doesn't stink, who would expect the chart to be calculated down to the nearest bag of chips. Maybe, make it twenty pages, and cover every possible exception.

There are also some clueless folks who will go exactly by the chart and when DW tells DH that MIL is riding along, he'll be asking us, if he needs a bigger truck.

Hopefully, you folks can can pick out (some are quite good at picking) the useful bits and pieces, and find the humor in the rest.

[jerem0621]

Great feedback folks. I'll get another chart together kind of like the old times tables chart that will take the trailer weight and give you all the possible tongue/pin weights from 10%-25%... Probably do trailer weight from 1000 lbs to 20,000 lbs. That should cover most everything from small utility trailers to big fivers.

I'll have to think about the rear axle weights and where to add that in. Also, got to think about GCVWR.

I want this to be simple so someone shopping for a trailer and not a truck can get a feel if a combo will work or not.

Keep the suggestions coming.

[JIMNLIN]

wing_zealot wrote:
The problem is, you have only one percentage point in each chart and various increments when in fact the choices are endless. There is an easier way. towing-weight demonstrator

Good point. All of my bumper/GN and 5th wheel trailers doesn't fit in the 13 % or the 25 % numbers in the charts. I've had 5th wheel RVs with 17 % up to 21% hitch loads.

Another issue I see is subtracting the vehicle gross weight from its GVWR and use that number as a payload which RV folks think it goes in the bed of the truck. With todays high GVWR and low RAWR the GVWR based payload number overloads the trucks rear axle.
Example; '15 2500 Ram 10000 GVWR 6000 RAWR Hemi and Ram says a 3970 lb payload. We know this truck rear axle can weigh in the 2700 lb range which leaves approx 3300 lbs rear axle payload. If we used the 3970 lb GVWR payload and placed it in the bed we now have a overloaded tires/wheels and maybe the rear spring pack.

The F150 with the high 7700 GVWR (and other packages) and small 4050 RAWR is another example of a GVWR payload overloading the 4050 RAWR/P tires.

Somewhere the chart needs a weigh the rear axle as it carries most if not all of a RV's weight.

[wing_zealot]

The problem is, you have only one percentage point in each chart and various increments when in fact the choices are endless. There is an easier way. towing-weight demonstrator

[2112]

It's a good first approximation considering the rule of thumb percentage but my FW doesn't follow the 25% rule of thumb. According to the yellow stickers my camper weighs 8020lbs with a 1120lb pin weight. I called KZ to be informed that the weights do include the group 24 battery and two empty 30lb propane bottles. So, adding 60lbs to the pin weight gives me 1180 dry pin. 1180 is ~15% of 8080.

Most of my interior storage is either above or behind the axles except under the bed and closet but there is not much storage room there. Basement storage has the greatest affect on increasing pin weight ratio for me. Needless to say, we travel light.

[Brisk]

Maybe make a list of common items people keep in there vehicles along with approximate weights. Also maybe common camping items they would put in the back of a truck/suv. This would speed up the process for people who do not have a CAT scale readily available or who are shopping for a new vehicle they don't own.

Examples could be jumper cables, tow strap, generator, basic toolbox, children's car seats, snacks/drinks for the drive, bicycles, firepit etc. Maybe include the weight of a truck topper and spray in bedliner too.

Great job by the way!

[Sport45]

For travel trailers have them look at the hitch rating too. It might be the hitch rather than payload that limits maximum tongue weight.

At least I know that was the case with my F-250 and its Class IV receiver. I could tow 10,000# in either case. Bumper pulls were limited by tongue weight and goosenecks were limited by payload.

[jerem0621]

Thank you both for the feedback. If I can do anything to help people think about safety then I have accomplished my goal. RV'ing is supposed to be fun and relaxing.

There is much more to towing than just weight...but if you start behind the 8-ball then you are playing catch-up through the entire RV'ing experience. start out right...match the truck and the trailer together and you will be well on your way to that cold one under the awning.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[jmtandem]

You provide an interesting way of looking at tow limits. You bring some reality to the often ridiculous concept of half ton towable fifth wheels. From your chart if the fifth wheel weighs 8000 pounds (and most are heavier than that often by quite a bit) the payload needed to accommodate that is 2000 pounds, rarely found in a half ton when people, tools, and all the other stuff is also added against payload.

[TucsonJim]

I like your approach. I'll be following the responses.