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Are "lemons" still made?

travel4family
Explorer
Explorer
Our 1 1/2 year old trailer has several odd things we've fixed, we're having another one this week and today found a third one. Outlined below, does it seem exceedingly strange that this many things are factory wrong --not broken, but put together wrong --on a brand new trailer?

1) furnace did not work on first trip out. Turned out it wasn't hooked to the thermostat (I chalked it up to mistakes happen last spring).

2) on the way home from a 4800 mile trip this July we nearly blew a tire. When going to replace them discovered that the tires and rims were the wrong size for what was spec'd by weight - these are what came from that factory! Shorting us by over a 1000 pounds. They concede it's wrong and are fixing all this next week.

3) today we finished our last trip for the year, dumped and winterized everything and in rinsing things out I realized I thought the tanks weren't draining the way I thought they should. After some screwing around I've figured out that the gray and black tanks are both stickered wrong and the outlets out of them are hooked up wrong -- the 2" pipe is coming out of the black and the 4" out of the gray!

Add to that the caulk was comign out of the shower before we ever used it and we're getting some peeling on the edges of two cupboards and I'm pretty frustrated. We used it a couple of weeks last year and about 25 nights this year. And we're really not hard on things. Do they still get the occasional lemon? THis seems like shoddy workmanship to me. Am I over-reacting?
Thanks
33 REPLIES 33

travel4family
Explorer
Explorer
Just thought I'd post a quick update, I realize it's been a couple months.

We had all of our issues fixed in one warranty claim. The fridge, which was not cooling properly on propane on hot days on the road turned out to be missing a shield that goes inside the vent, and there was no insulation around it to keep the cold in, either. The rims and tires were replaced with the proper size for originally stickered for by weight. The sewer tanks did prove to be plumbed backwards and that has also been re-done. For all those who were asking, it was all handled very well by Gulfstream. While of course I would have preferred to have it all correct to begin with, this thread sounds as though these things are pretty common, and I think they did a good job of handling it and following up on everything. Thanks for everyone's advice and comments - very helpful to a first time owner.

aeejbe
Explorer
Explorer
After four pages of discussion, Iโ€™m still left with the unanswered question:
WHICH MANUFACTURER is the culprit this time, travel4family?

tatest
Explorer II
Explorer II
Those would be normal "initial quality" problems for RVs, yes they are still common from many manufacturers. Shoddy workmanship is common, inadequate engineering is common, it is all about containing cost to make a profit at the price a buyer is willing to pay.

"Lemon" has a specific meaning, defined by statute in each state, and "lemon law" is about procedures to provide replacements for vehicles that cannot be fixed under warranty. The law usually what conditions constitute "not repairable" and is about unservicability, time out of service, and failure of multiple attempt to make a repair.

True "lemons" are pretty rare in the RV world, but unfortunately when a new RV turns out not to be repairable, the state's "lemon law" often doesn't apply, and you are left dealing with the manufacturer by yourself.
Tom Test
Itasca Spirit 29B

mlts22
Explorer
Explorer
The one place I see decent quality across the board regardless of model, are class "B" rigs. However, with six digits on up being the entry level price new, and used rigs losing maybe 5-10% of their value with depreciation, one pays quite well for them.

JJBIRISH
Explorer
Explorer
D & M wrote:
Dog Folks wrote:


As an example, reading here you would think that RV's are fires waiting to happen, so I did some research. Yes, an RV fire is usually a total loss, but the research I did shows that total number of RV fires were less common than house fires, percentage wise. (Don't ask me for a source. I am too old and tired to look it up again.) This is just an example.


RV fires vs. number of RVs on the road...statistically insignificant.




there are about 8.2+ million RVs on the road โ€ฆ

โ€œRV fires are one of the largest causes of RV loss in America today. The National Fire Protection Association (NFPA), fire departments, RV repair shops, and insurance carriers estimate there are approximately 6,300 RV fires annually. Deaths resulting from RV fires are estimated at 5 to 20 each year and RV Alliance America statistics show half of fires erupt while the RV is parked.

Mechanical or electrical failures cause roughly three-quarters of the highway vehicle fires.
While the causes of RV fires vary widely, there are identifiable trends. Engine and electrical fires are consistently the greatest cause of loss. Engine compartments, including electrical, flammable-combustible gases and liquids, are the cause of origin roughly 70 percent of the time.
Tires and brakes are the culprit in almost 20 percent of fires. Some of the worst fires are those caused when one tire of a dual or tandem pair goes flat and then scuffs and ignites, long before the driver feels any change in handling.
At each rest stop, give your tires at least an eyeball check. Remember a pressure gauge reading on hot tires is NOT accurate. Tap duals with a club and listen for a difference in sound; you can often tell if a tire is going soft.
The remaining causes of fires vary widely from faulty generators, fuel leaks, solar power problems, cooking carelessness, propane leaks, spontaneous combustion in damp charcoal, and certainly a range of unknown origins. โ€œ


How that relates to the residential numbers I donโ€™t knowโ€ฆ


โ€œAverage number of residential home fires each year 374,000
Average number of deaths each year from home fires 2,600
Average number of injuries due to home fires each year 12,975
Average annual dollar loss to due to home fires $7.32 billion

Cause of Home Fires Percent of Fires

Cooking 56 %
Heating 16 %
Electrical Malfunction 9 %
Other Unintentional, Careless 8 %
Open Flame 6 %
Intentional 5 %โ€
Love my mass produced, entry level, built by Lazy American Workers, Hornet

ol_Bombero-JC
Explorer
Explorer
Jarlaxle wrote:
You need to understand that the "quality" of most RV's would have the builders of Trabants hanging their heads in shame. Compared to a typical RV, a 1987 Hyundai an AMC Gremlin, or a Yugo is a paragon of quality.


"Trabants" - musical group or car?

Speaking of Trabants, Yugos - and Lemons......

Ever talk to someone who works (or worked) at a USA auto mfg plant?
(As in - "The Big Three")

Different kind of "Gremlins" - there's Monday morning -and Friday night- cars/trucks.
The "line" doesn't hang their head in shame - they fix it and ship it out with all the rest.

There's "fixit" folks that can accomplish wonders that any body man would be proud of.
Only the most seriously destroyed cars/trucks go to the crusher.

How about "break-in" time?
Do you "baby" your new car/truck for the first 500 miles?

(Maybe this should (somehow) apply to RVs)
About 1 minute full throttle on "the rollers", then (at least at the now closed Van Nuys GM plant) - a guy hops in the finished vehicle and goes flat out about 5 football fields away in the pk/storage lot.
Then 5 guys hop back in a car and return - and start over again.

Hood adjustment for accurate "fit" = *NOT* a BMW - but a BRM.
Big Rubber Mallet.

Ya just gotta know how to make Lemonade out of Lemons (if you can).:W

~

D___M
Explorer
Explorer
Dog Folks wrote:


As an example, reading here you would think that RV's are fires waiting to happen, so I did some research. Yes, an RV fire is usually a total loss, but the research I did shows that total number of RV fires were less common than house fires, percentage wise. (Don't ask me for a source. I am too old and tired to look it up again.) This is just an example.


RV fires vs. number of RVs on the road...statistically insignificant.
Dave
Mary, the world's best wife (1951-2009) R.I.P
Lizzy (a Boston)
Izzy, Pepper & BuddyP - Gone but not forgotten
2005 Itasca Suncruiser 35A

My computer beat me at chess once; but it was no match for me at kickboxing.

D___M
Explorer
Explorer
Jframpey wrote:
ReadyToGo wrote:
Regarding Fri and Mon for creating lemons.
It is well known that 40 percent of problem cars are mfged on Mon and Fri. Along with this, it is also known that 40 percent of sick days are on Mon and Fri.
Smiley.


Monday and Friday make up 40% of the workdays! Hmm... Statistics! You can make them say anything you want!


That's only true 68% of the time.
Dave
Mary, the world's best wife (1951-2009) R.I.P
Lizzy (a Boston)
Izzy, Pepper & BuddyP - Gone but not forgotten
2005 Itasca Suncruiser 35A

My computer beat me at chess once; but it was no match for me at kickboxing.

Dog_Folks
Explorer
Explorer
JJBIRISH wrote:
it is RV quality, not Amish quality that is the problemโ€ฆ placing blame on the lowest common denominator is seldom the answerโ€ฆ

if a RV company wants to build quality they willโ€ฆ they will demand it themselves and it will reflect on down the lineโ€ฆโ€ฆ

if they want to limit time, materials, tooling, and training to improve the bottom line you get the just above average RVโ€ฆ

if you farter limit assembly line inspection and QC you get the average RV being sold todayโ€ฆ

so where is the Amish or any other production assemblers control over any of this come inโ€ฆ the problem lies at the very top of the industry and the mfg.sโ€ฆ

that is why in my lifetime RV quality and RV quality control hasnโ€™t changed very much at allโ€ฆ


I agree with all the above. The other issue is that we, the American public, are unwilling to pay the price that a real quality built unit will cost.

The main issue of anything being made and sold is: Will there be a market/buyers? With the proliferation of cheap built units is I guess that most of us are unwilling to pay for quality. (With some exceptions)
Our Rig:
2005 Dodge 3500 - Dually- Cummins
2006 Outback 27 RSDS

We also have with us two rescue dogs. A Chihuahua mix & a Catahoula mix.

"I did not get to this advanced age because I am stupid."

Full time since June 2006

JJBIRISH
Explorer
Explorer
it is RV quality, not Amish quality that is the problemโ€ฆ placing blame on the lowest common denominator is seldom the answerโ€ฆ

if a RV company wants to build quality they willโ€ฆ they will demand it themselves and it will reflect on down the lineโ€ฆโ€ฆ

if they want to limit time, materials, tooling, and training to improve the bottom line you get the just above average RVโ€ฆ

if you farter limit assembly line inspection and QC you get the average RV being sold todayโ€ฆ

so where is the Amish or any other production assemblers control over any of this come inโ€ฆ the problem lies at the very top of the industry and the mfg.sโ€ฆ

that is why in my lifetime RV quality and RV quality control hasnโ€™t changed very much at allโ€ฆ
Love my mass produced, entry level, built by Lazy American Workers, Hornet

aruba5er
Explorer
Explorer
I watched a program on making RV's on Public Television. After watching the workers litterly running and throwing parts around it is suprising they even make it to the dealers. One guy was throwing the ceiling insulation into place as it was going down the line as another was placing the roof in place. I think it was mine as there is no insulation in many spots.(Thermo imaging camera)and removing vent seeing none either. I had 17 items wrong with a brand new unit. (get it out the door, let the dealer fix it). Amish quality? HA HA HA

Dog_Folks
Explorer
Explorer
We all hear about how bad the RV industry is today. Horror story after horror story.

It would be real helpful to know of a verifiable, trusted source that shows the rate/percentage of warranty work on new units, and then compared with other industries like auto makers.

As an example, reading here you would think that RV's are fires waiting to happen, so I did some research. Yes, an RV fire is usually a total loss, but the research I did shows that total number of RV fires were less common than house fires, percentage wise. (Don't ask me for a source. I am too old and tired to look it up again.) This is just an example.
Our Rig:
2005 Dodge 3500 - Dually- Cummins
2006 Outback 27 RSDS

We also have with us two rescue dogs. A Chihuahua mix & a Catahoula mix.

"I did not get to this advanced age because I am stupid."

Full time since June 2006

Jframpey
Explorer
Explorer
ReadyToGo wrote:
Regarding Fri and Mon for creating lemons.
It is well known that 40 percent of problem cars are mfged on Mon and Fri. Along with this, it is also known that 40 percent of sick days are on Mon and Fri.
Smiley.


Monday and Friday make up 40% of the workdays! Hmm... Statistics! You can make them say anything you want!

ReadyToGo
Explorer
Explorer
Regarding Fri and Mon for creating lemons.
It is well known that 40 percent of problem cars are mfged on Mon and Fri. Along with this, it is also known that 40 percent of sick days are on Mon and Fri.
Smiley.