Camping World Quality

[jzrvinit]

I am a big fan of Good Sams and Camping World. I shop their often, and it is not close to me.... Lately I have been having issues with the quality of the products they are selling.

Has anyone noticed the same?

It would seem that the quality of some of the products they sell are going down hill. For example, I purchased a clothes hanger, it broke almost within a week, I had it replaced at a camping world, same issue. Cheap plastic and poor design.

Purchased a water regulator with a gauge, the gauge is no longer working after only 3 months. No it is not clogged.

Purchased a outdoor patio mat, which in the past I could get a full season out of, now the mat is separating at the stitching.
Only had this item for 2 months.

This is not a complaint thread, I only wish to see if anyone else is having similar issues and hopefully call Camping World management to take action.

I would rather pay more for higher quality, you?

Thanks..

[Sport45]

In the above posts someone mentioned durable goods. IMO the redefinition of durable goods is the heart of the problem. As a society we have accepted way too many products today as disposable that used to be durable. Sharpen your razor? No way, we just buy a new one. Buy a good drill bit and sharpen it when it dulls? Why do that when you can buy a dozen throw-aways for the same price. Who even tries to repair a toaster, coffeepot or ceiling fan? Those of us who do are a dying breed.

The USA wants cheap products that can be tossed in the trash when they break. And that’s what we get.

[pnichols]

Germany, and other similar places in the world, may not be where U.S. chartered companies think they should go to get their branded products manufactured ... but maybe it's in the kind of world manufacturing environments similar to Germany where customers should consider going to get high quality products. That is, until good old U.S. chartered companies begin to get the quality message again.

Notice I said "U.S. chartered companies" instead of "U.S. companies". Many U.S. companies no longer perform like good U.S. citizens ... they appear to be U.S. companies in name (and charter) only. Under our legal system a company chartered in the U.S. is considered to be "a person", hence they should act like a good U.S. citizen-person if they're want to be called a U.S. company.

IMHO, U.S. companies have at least one other top priority besides maximizing return for it's owners and executives ... that other priority is doing what's best for the long term existence and viability of the cultural system in which it is chartered. This other priority encompasses hiring the bulk of their workers from that cultural system, creating within those workers pride in the manufacture of it's products, and paying those workers maybe enough to someday buy some of the top quality products it's workers are putting together.

I prefer my products to come from companies that at least slightly resemble what I describe above. It's now becoming more and more difficult to find products coming from U.S. chartered companies that do. Some other countries still have companies - that started within those countries - that resemble what I describe.

Would I buy a top quality product from a China chartered company when I could not find an equivalent U.S. chartered company version of it ... yes ... just like I do now with top quality products from, say, Germany. But buying a less-than-top-quality version of a product from a U.S. chartered company that has it built in China instead of a top quality version of it built here .... is something else.

[4X4Dodger]

pnichols wrote:
Hmmmm ....: Why is it then - if quality coming out of China can be "all over the map" depending directly upon the specs of the company/distributor ordering the manufacture of it - that in contrast, products coming from Germany are almost universally of good quality?

Could it be that there is some kind of "national culture", or other related thing going on with the personnel and workers within the German industrial complex that helps quality along?

If there is ... then I prefer products sourced from such places with that magic ingredient that helps quality along. I'm not sure that the Chinese industrial complex contains the national culture, or whatever other things, necessary to put together products like Germany does ... regardless of the build-specs imposed.

The answer is simple: As a company you dont quote a product to be made in Germany unless it's going to have a high price point and be at the top of the line quality -wise. AND there must be enough "head room" for some profit.

Germany has carved out an interesting global market niche of producing high quality products at premium prices...it's not where you go if you are SEARS looking to manufacture wrenches.

However remember that one half of Germany also gave the world the Trabant...arguably the worst car ever made...How does that square with the "National Culture" argument?

And remember Virtually all APPLE products and all high tech HD Flat TV screens are made in China...even Sony's. Buick Assembles cars there. And many other high quality products are produced there as well.

[Popsie]

pnichols wrote:
Hmmmm ....: Why is it then - if quality coming out of China can be "all over the map" depending directly upon the specs of the company/distributor ordering the manufacture of it - that in contrast, products coming from Germany are almost universally of good quality?

Could it be that there is some kind of "national culture", or other related thing going on with the personnel and workers within the German industrial complex that helps quality along?

If there is ... then I prefer products sourced from such places with that magic ingredient that helps quality along. I'm not sure that the Chinese industrial complex contains the national culture, or whatever other things, necessary to put together products like Germany does ... regardless of the build-specs imposed.

We lived in West Germany for a number of years. There was definitely a "national culture" - imagine everyone cleaning the sidewalk and street in front of their home, workers in factories having great pride in the quality of their work, etc. However, when the wall came down there was an influx of East Germans who had lived under socialism who lacked the "national culture". Germany is still working to regain their culture, but I doubt that it will ever return to what it was before.

[pnichols]

Hmmmm ....: Why is it then - if quality coming out of China can be "all over the map" depending directly upon the specs of the company/distributor ordering the manufacture of it - that in contrast, products coming from Germany are almost universally of good quality?

Could it be that there is some kind of "national culture", or other related thing going on with the personnel and workers within the German industrial complex that helps quality along?

If there is ... then I prefer products sourced from such places with that magic ingredient that helps quality along. I'm not sure that the Chinese industrial complex contains the national culture, or whatever other things, necessary to put together products like Germany does ... regardless of the build-specs imposed.

[4X4Dodger]

mlts22 wrote:
I've found that it varies. For example, with 30A adapters, there are cheapies which burn out and get hot, but then there are the larger Camco ones (as well as their dogbones) which work well for a long time.

Some products, marine-grade is the only way to go. Especially when it comes to plumbing an electrical work. Costs more, but for items where the labor can mean many man-hours to get to the problem, it is worth it.

All and all product quality as a whole has suffered. I can compare tools from the '80s versus wrenches made now, and the differences are obvious. For tools which were "average" a few decades ago in quality, I'd have to buy MAC or Snap-on today to get the same fit/finish/material work.

Where Sears went wrong was losing their good name and offshoring. Once their products went from top tier US made goods to just another brand off the Chinese slowboat, people just went with cheaper stuff that was at the same quality tier, such as Home Depot or Lowe's house brands, or even the Harbor Freight specials.

Had Sears actually stayed with their "Sears Roebuck & Co." quality name and avoided the mass migration of good making to China, they might be still relevant today.

Your argument might be persuasive as far as it goes and I wholeheartedly agree that if you want fine quality elec or mech or plumbing equipment for your RV Go Marine.

However as for the rest of your post this is the problem with the argument you make:

The reason quality has gone down is NOT because the companies are buying from overseas. It is that the companies whose names are on the products made a conscious decision to lower the quality to save money. The most obvious way to lower the price is to lower the specs.

The price of steel is about the same on the world-wide market so if you spec a certain grade of steel for your wrench the raw material cost is about the same. That means the only two places left to save on that tool is Specs and labor. Tools are very heavy and not cheap to ship. Therefore to help offset the additional shipping costs from overseas my guess is the specs are lowered.

But there is another reason to lower the spec. and that is the rising cost of steel and the other minerals like Chrome that are used in their manufacture.

So again sending the manufacturing to China (if that is indeed where they are made) really has NOTHING to do with this. The Chinese can build the same Craftsman quality that you remember from decades past...but they cant do it if their customer doesn't want it.

I would also remind you that much of the really good products you buy from West Marine and Seattle Fisheries Supply are also MADE IN CHINA.

[Bumpyroad]

IIRC Sears used to have in their catalog, the same item in a good, better, and best quality/price. I would suspect that at that time they were all made in the USA? or in the same factory?
bumpy

[4X4Dodger]

Bumpyroad wrote:

down home wrote:

When they started losing money is when they started playing games, such as not repairing ratchets but replacing them with Chinese of inferior quality and no lifetime guarantee. .

Back when I was first using their ratchets, they would just exchange my trade in for a new one. then they started just giving me a replacement kit so I could rebuild mine. don't remember the last part of the quote however. If they were made in china I would "assume" that they were made to sears/craftsman specs. however.
bumpy

You are 100% correct. If the New Sears tools are made in China or Indonesia or anywhere else they are made to engineering specs devised and approved by Sears. All of this China bashing is just so much jingoistic Bull. It is Sears that decides what these tools are and how they are made and what material they are made out of in fact every bit of the process would be specified in detail. But in reality since Sears does not manufacture anything they have always depended on "for hire" factories. It was those factories that went overseas so they could better compete with all the others. This made the decision for Sears.

[mlts22]

I've found that it varies. For example, with 30A adapters, there are cheapies which burn out and get hot, but then there are the larger Camco ones (as well as their dogbones) which work well for a long time.

Some products, marine-grade is the only way to go. Especially when it comes to plumbing an electrical work. Costs more, but for items where the labor can mean many man-hours to get to the problem, it is worth it.

All and all product quality as a whole has suffered. I can compare tools from the '80s versus wrenches made now, and the differences are obvious. For tools which were "average" a few decades ago in quality, I'd have to buy MAC or Snap-on today to get the same fit/finish/material work.

Where Sears went wrong was losing their good name and offshoring. Once their products went from top tier US made goods to just another brand off the Chinese slowboat, people just went with cheaper stuff that was at the same quality tier, such as Home Depot or Lowe's house brands, or even the Harbor Freight specials.

Had Sears actually stayed with their "Sears Roebuck & Co." quality name and avoided the mass migration of good making to China, they might be still relevant today.

[ryegatevt]

We buy most of our RV stuff from West Marine.

[Bumpyroad]

down home wrote:

When they started losing money is when they started playing games, such as not repairing ratchets but replacing them with Chinese of inferior quality and no lifetime guarantee. .

Back when I was first using their ratchets, they would just exchange my trade in for a new one. then they started just giving me a replacement kit so I could rebuild mine. don't remember the last part of the quote however. If they were made in china I would "assume" that they were made to sears/craftsman specs. however.
bumpy

[down_home]

......

[luckyscroller78]

"First of all you assume that Sears was making a profit in the first place on Craftsman... It was not it was in the Red. That means by sending the MFG overseas it has only started making a profit not increased it. But My Craftsman tools (the Wrenches and Sockets)I think still say "Made in America". "
Go to a store, and look at a bunch of wrenches, the few made in the usa ones are still mixed in there, but the majority are Chinese. As for if they were or weren't making a profit on the craftsman line, I don't know, but I think that was most likely the only profit making part of sears for the last number of years. Sears/Kmart was in the red agreed, but the hand tools part is a small portion of sears. And, for a company that's going in the crapper, they still had plenty to sponsor racing. I don't know how much profit that returns them,maybe its a lot, maybe not, and really I don't care. My point is, everyone knew they could count on a craftsman wrench being an American staple, and even though priced more than a china special, still managed to keep a good following,yet either greed, or mismanagement resulted in the overseas switch. think what you want, but that's my opinion and I'm stickin to it.

[4X4Dodger]

luckyscroller788 wrote:
I may be offtopic here, but one thing that really confuses me is :
Sears sold Craftsman tools for way longer than I've been alive. They were very high quality, and were made in the USA. They were not low price, but compared to others like snap-on, they were priced affordable I feel, making them a good value. Now, the majority, if not all the Craftsman wrenches and such are made in China. I do not know how their quality compares to the US made ones, but what I do know is their price has not gone down in the stores.So, by outsourcing the production to China,I can only assume the manufacturing costs went down substantially, the quality may have went down as well, and the profit margin for Sears went way up on the craftsman tools,and a******load of American workers are now unemployed because of it, and still, Sears is struggling to make a profit.

I understand your point and see why you draw that conclusion but I think there is more to the story.

First of all you assume that Sears was making a profit in the first place on Craftsman... It was not it was in the Red. That means by sending the MFG overseas it has only started making a profit not increased it. But My Craftsman tools (the Wrenches and Sockets)I think still say "Made in America". Some of the other Craftsman tools like the electronics and saws and things I think are made overseas.

Secondly Sears didnt manufacture them. They spec'ed them out to conglomerate tool manufacturers...It was those factories that went overseas out of economic necessity. Sears really had no choice but to go along.

If I was going to do manufacturing in this country I would bring back the Big stuff...Locomotives, Ships, Aircraft (here already), wind turbines etc. where the skills and wages are higher and leave the small stuff like tools, stereos and TV's to overseas.

America is great at innovation, invention, finance and Software Design. our challenge is to make good middle class jobs in those industries where we excel. I think that is the real challenge facing us, not whether tools or car parts are made overseas.

[luckyscroller78]

I may be offtopic here, but one thing that really confuses me is :
Sears sold Craftsman tools for way longer than I've been alive. They were very high quality, and were made in the USA. They were not low price, but compared to others like snap-on, they were priced affordable I feel, making them a good value. Now, the majority, if not all the Craftsman wrenches and such are made in China. I do not know how their quality compares to the US made ones, but what I do know is their price has not gone down in the stores.So, by outsourcing the production to China,I can only assume the manufacturing costs went down substantially, the quality may have went down as well, and the profit margin for Sears went way up on the craftsman tools,and a******load of American workers are now unemployed because of it, and still, Sears is struggling to make a profit.