Coachman issue

[writerwithwheel]

I made the mistake of buying a 2004 Coachman from General RV in Akron.
I am a first time Rv'er but I did take someone with me who owns RV's and claimed they could spot any no-buy issues.

3 months later, I have replaced the front Brakelines,Calipers and pads. Over $1000

The entire cab over is dry rotted and has delamination issues.
An email to Coachman/Forest River has gone unanswered.
This year vehicle was involved in their delamination mess.

I found this out when the floor separated from the wall. They told me I could use the cab over for storage during travel since I wasn't going to use it for sleeping. That cost $500 to quick fix and will cost $5000 to fix it right.

I have replaced the starter and various other parts and pieces.
Other things I found broke after purchase are still waiting to be fixed. Drawers broken, Window Coverings Loose. Ect......
I have also had to replace a tire, have the alignment totally redone
and the gear box for the steering tightened.

I paid cash, so for now I am stuck with this thing. I am a full-timer
so it is my home on wheels.

I have well informed General RV that I think their actions have been Fraud and Deceptive Trade. I have received no response from them.
During the sale the salesman kept repeating the vehicle had no warranty and was AS-IS. They knew this thing had issues.

There were other issues they left me hanging with too.
They never emptied the holding tanks after testing.
They left the valve on the fresh water tank open.
They failed to repair other broken items they should have repaired.

I am hoping to park somewhere for the winter where I can work on the cab issues myself. At least enough to make sure it does not fall apart in the middle of a freeway somewhere. Unlike the generator exhaust that fell off twice before I made sure it was fastened securely with set screws.

If anyone knows how to get Forest River to help me with this, I would appreciate it. At least to fix the delamination issues. As for General RV, they need to be investigated and fined by several levels of officials.

[writerwithwheel]

It's my understanding of disclosure in the sale of motor vehicles that if they know there is a major issue and do not disclose it, they are violating the law.
I have done various Google Searches to see how this applies to RV's and haven't had much luck finding anything specific.

As for writing a book, one of the reasons I did this purchase and these travels was to write a book. For those of you who are familiar with Steinbeck's "Travels With Charley" and Heat Moon's "Blue Highways" you understand where the idea came from.

Trust me when I say the issues with the RV will be well covered in the book.
I've also taken over 3000 photographs.
Roached RV at The Grand Canyon, Roached RV at San Diego Zoo, Roached RV in the woods of Wisconsin, Roached RV at Daytona Beach.
I've visited 31 states so far and I'm headed to 32. I have visited some of them twice because of routing. In two days less than 3 months. Almost 14,000 miles.

[JJBIRISH]

Hum, I always wondered what happen to my old C… :B:B:B

Its hard to see the emotion from your seat ( I and maybe many others have been there and learned from our own mistakes to), but emotion is guiding you thought processes based in my comprehension of your post, and no you don’t have to agree with my opinions, there only worth what you paid for them, but maybe more than your C…
What I can promise you is I gave you a honest opinion, not necessarily the one you wanted to hear, but honest just the same… they are given for you to consider or ignore, it matters not to me… remember I have no dog in this fight and no emotional baggage clouding my view…

Also my best wishes are sincere I know how difficult the position you have ended up in can be, but it can’t be wished away… when I say you didn’t do enough it’s not to be critical, but because that’s what I believe and hope to encourage you to make better decisions forward… again consider or ignore the choice is yours alone…



No, it’s not my old C, never had one, I am a trailer trash kind of guy… always was, always will be…

So with that I will only add, good day sir, it’s been a pleasure…

[winnietrey]

From a moral point of view, I think you have a good arguement. From a legal point of view, probably not so much. I believe when you signed that as-is agreement. You don't have much of a legal argument.

Sorry it happened to you.

As a side note ford front brakes are famous for locking up. Something about they used a ceramic piston, rather than steel. and overheating the brakes, and disuse contributes, So that is not a surprise. On a 10 year old MH. Hard to blame the dealer for that.

And 6 or 7 hundred pounds, at least you say? in the cabover? while going down the road? that is a huge load. That would be extremely hard on any overhead. I would never get over maybe 150 or so, while driving.

[shadows4]

Well look at the bright side. If you are a "writerwithwheels" just think of all the first hand knowledge you have now on what to look for when purchasing a used RV. And you won't even have to come up with any jokes as they have already been included for you!!! Let us know when the book comes out.
Good luck, John

[writerwithwheel]

I bought what I could find in Ohio. I was looking at Class C's and ever other dealership tried to shove me into a 15-20 year old Class A because they all claimed that's all they had on their lots in my price range. In fact, General RV tried to do the same thing initially. This C came in after my first visit there.

I contacted and looked at units from private sellers too. I did what I could in the short time I had to make the purchase. 5 weeks. I wanted a small RV
that got better mileage and maneuverability, not a Class A with space and lousy gas mileage. I have taken this Small C into places where no Class A could even begin to travel.

It has nothing to do with emotion. This 4 wheeled piece of garbage came from Butler PA. Are you by chance the previous owner?

[JJBIRISH]

And you got what you got… it hurts, but you didn’t do enough that is painfully obvious to you (when you remove the emotion) and us (which is why we see it differently)…

What you think they should do and what you think is the right thing for them to do is immaterial to them at this point… I can’t believe that will change either…

I realize and knew from the start you bought what you could afford, and for that reason alone should have required that you to do more leg work and research so you could buy a better unit in your price range… believe me you could have done better in any price range, but it requires you to do more and better for yourself… not always easy, not always quick, but always doable…

Again I wish you the best, think about and consider selling and replacing before you get to far invested into a dwindling asset, even after the repairs… when the hole is to deep stop digging…

[mgirardo]

Did you call Forest River? The only time I've gotten an email response from Forest River is when I was responding to an email they sent me. Even then it would take almost a week for them to respond. When I called and left a voicemail it would take a few days for them to return the call.

I would not expect Forest River to do anything, but it can't hurt to give them a call. They didn't own Coachmen during the model years that it was a known defect, so I can't imagine they would step up, but who knows.

-Michael

[writerwithwheel]

I never said the overload on the front caused the brake failure, I just said it might have added to the stress on the front of the vehicle.

As for my mechanical knowledge, yes I took someone with me who had the following acclaimed background.

1. Years of RV ownership.
2. Mechanic Training
3. Ran a shop Customizing trailers.

The delamination was NOT apparent the three times I saw the vehicle at the dealership. I spotted it the first time when they delivered the vehicle to me. The entire passenger side of the front of the cab over looked wavy and had dents in it like it had hit something. I took it to the dealership the next day and that's when they proclaimed it "normal when sitting in the sun."

I was told by the dealership that repaired the floor that there is nothing normal about. They asked me if I was sure I got the same vehicle I looked at.

So, there are all sorts of things involved here.

And yes, I think Coachman/Forest River should step up and help
with the delamination issues. That was a KNOWN Coachman defect in those model years.

I did do what research I could before I bought. I did spot issues on my own. That's why I took the second set of eyes with me before I purchased.

I bought what I could afford. Not everyone can run around in a brand new Class A.

[JJBIRISH]

I can only repeat what I already said… in short…
It is what it is… a as is purchase… sorry you had to learn this in such a harsh way… and hope you learned to protect yourself in future purchases…

Nothing you added in your last post changes the reality of the purchase even if it were much newer and you paid much more for it…

Even the original warranty covers ONLY the original owner and only for the stated period of time… anything else is good will and you won’t find that at its age… now if there was a unrepaired recall not disclosed you might have a argument…

I wish you the best of luck going forward, somehow I think you might need it as new and different problems surface on what seems to have been a poorly maintained vehicle…

[westend]

All of this seems related to the level of knowledge of the buyer, the economics involved, and the circumstances of the RV when purchased.

The OP has little knowledge of how mechanical systems work and was at least prudent enough to choose the addition of a second pair of eyes when purchasing. However, that does not mean that the choice of eyes was correct or enough to find all the defects. This insufficient level of understanding is illustrated by the AC fan issue and the misconception of weight loading causing the brake failure.

The OP chose not to have a thorough mechanical inspection done, instead relying on the seller to disclose any known defects or inspecting for any unknown problems. This was mainly a matter of economics since an RV technician would have seen and reported most of the glaring issues like delamination and failed brake hoses/calipers.

I'm pretty much astonished that a buyer of a motor vehicle would assume that there are no issues with a 10 yr. old vehicle. Nowhere in the OP's narrative are mentions of typical mechanical systems, wear to the vehicle, or the absence/completion of service records. To blame a mfg. and assume assistance for ongoing problems 10 years after the RV was built, is just ridiculous.

IMO, the OP should seek assistance from a service technician to uncover any/all issues with the RV and quit blaming the dealer or mfg. for his problems. There is just a huge lack of knowledge depicted here.

[Mich_F]

The delamination should have been visible/evident when you bought the unit. Driving around with "at least 6-700 pounds initially" in the cab over, is more than enough weight to bring about delamination due to all the additional flexing, that much weight would cause.

[hotbyte]

I'm sorry to hear of all the issues you are having.

Like others, I'm not sure what you can expect from Coachman unless there was some kind of recall/fix that applied to original and future owners.

As for the dealer, if they knew the delam and/or other issues were there but did not disclose and you can prove they hide it then maybe there is a nondisclosure issue you could pursue.

Hope you get the MH all fixed up!

[writerwithwheel]

Sorry, but it's my understanding that there was a major issue with Coachman's and delamination in the year vehicle I purchased. I was told that this issue was how Coachman ended up being bought by Forest River. So yes, I think Forest River should step up and offer some assistance here.

The Salesman at General RV made several misrepresentations. And covered up many issues that would have been found during the PDI. I suspect they only did a partial PDI. he also told me the unit had no delamination and had been checked.

As for the Dry Rot, yes I do blame that one on the person I took to check out the vehicle for me. The collapse in the brake lines was visible too. And yes, i am sure that issue got sped up by the load I had in the cab-over. Luckily I emptied a large majority of that stuff before I hit the mountains out west.
but not before I descended two ranges in New Mexico. So those brakes got jammed twice before the load fix.

I am not looking for a miracle here, just a bit of justice against a dealer
who screwed me and a vehicle that had known issues before I bought it. (The Delamination)

I did not expect perfection, but nor did I expect a vehicle that is literally falling apart at the seams.

To answer the question about the weight in the cab over. The salesman told me I could put up to 1200 pounds up there. So I did not hesitate to place what I needed to there. Probably at least 6-700 pounds initially. I removed almost all of it when the floor broke away. Bedcloths and pillows still ride up there. I'm
sleeping on the Jacknife bed so when I fold it up, the pillows go into the cab over.

I'll give you all one more laugh. When I purchased the unit, there was a slight rattle in the cab air conditioner fan. As i traveled it got louder, so when I stopped to have the cab-over fixed, I had them check the fan too. Removing the mouse solved the problem. the guys at the dealership that fixed it thought this was hysterical. I heard an hour of mouse jokes.

You know you have to change your mouse every 10,000 miles.
A mouse is a terrible thing to waste.
Would you like a regular mouse or a high test mouse.
At least you didn't kill your squirrel too.
Next time buy a high speed mouse.
Didn't you hear him squeaking???

[Mich_F]

You made the mistake of not having a 10 year old motor home properly inspected. This is not a Coachmen issue.

I'm sure you posted on this site expecting support and compassion. It's not going to happen. We might feel sorry for the situation you're in, but blaming the dealer or Coachmen for issues on a 10 year old unit and expecting help, is unrealistic. The vast majority of units that old will have issues, it's just a question of how serious they are.
As others have said, you should be putting the blame on the person you brought with you, to check out the unit.
You were told numerous times that it was being sold AS-IS,which is not unusual, yet now you're expecting help with repairs?
You mentioned that you used the cab over for storage. I'm curious as to how much weight you were storing up there.
Of all the issues you've listed, many of which are age related, normal wear and tear items, the rotted out cab over seems to be the most expensive to fix. Assuming it's as bad as you say, it should have been caught, when your friend looked at it. That would have been more than enough reason to walk,(no run) away.
In early June I bought a MH that needed a complete cab over renovation. I bought for less than 25% of what it would have sold for, if it didn't need a complete cab over rebuild.