DC's New Traffic Cams

D.E.Bishop wrote:
Finally the councilmen instructed the City Attorney to end the contract for failure to produce the expected revenue generation.

gosh, I thought these were put in to increase traffic safety, not as revenue generation. :s
bumpy

I am retired from a Transportation Department of a large metropolitan area and some of us retired types get together with some of our still working friends for lunch every month. The guy who was placed in charge of the red light camera project commented that after the first year of use that the city was losing revenue but T-Bone and rear end accidents had declined dramatically. The number of contested tickets that defendants won in court was staggering and the costs of employees who had to be at each trial were astronomical.

There was no collusion between the City's DOT and the contractor that supplied the cameras but it was intimated(by one of the traffic engineers) that the contractor asked for changes in signal timing, which was denied. Finally the councilmen instructed the City Attorney to end the contract for failure to produce the expected revenue generation.

DutchmenSport wrote:
I still don't get it ... sorry I'm a pain in the ***. BUT if you all KNOW the camera's are there, then why do you push the limits and take chances that you might get lucky and still not get caught? So... if the entire city started retaliating by ACTUALLY stopping at stop signs, actually running SLOWER than the speed limits, were constantly aware that big brother is watching you and just waiting to "get you", then why do you still drive the envelope? Why not play the game a little. Once the speeding violation revenues dry up, the company with all the cameras will go out of business! Thus ... no need for cameras any more. Sounds like a simple solution ... if only you'll take control of your own actions! Why not put the 'city' out of business by not giving them any "business!" Your ability to follow traffic laws is truly something only YOU can control.

Like I said, I just don't get it. You know it's there, but you fight it, rather than playing along and putting it out of business!

Dutch the problem is that they short the yellow lights and make the intersection more dangerous in the name of catching more people going through on a red. If they would leave it alone and build in a buffer so you are only ticketing the egregious offender that enters the intersection 2 or 3 seconds after the red signal, I don't think anybody would object. But to take a well functioning intersection with no history of accidents above normal ratios, install cameras and then reduce yellow times to pump up the number of "offenders" is plain wrong.

Imagine towing the trailer and as you approach the intersection at the speed limit you get a yellow. You have a split second to decide whether to stop or go for it. You assess the situation and decide a) that the distance remaining is marginal for a safe stop (raining?) and b) the yellow should be sufficient to allow you time to clear or substantially clear the intersection safely. Now you are in the intersection and the short yellow goes red with the trailer is still in the intersection. You get a ticket in the mail without ever realizing you did anything wrong.

What you are saying about learning to live the with the cameras sounds nice on paper, but amounts to unrealistic oppression of the public in relaity.

D & M wrote:

DutchmenSport wrote:
I still don't get it ...

You're right you don't get it. The game is rigged. The camera operators shaves points, and the city winks to the game. Quick reds, incorrectly calibrated speed cameras, shorting the stop line. You say if everyone knows the cameras are there they can act accordingly. They have mobile cameras. They set them up at the place the speed changes on the streets that tourists use to enter the city and the sped drops from 50 to 30, They know that most people belief that the government won't cheat them and they know that the sheeple won't take the time to fight the system.

You talk about how everyone should just obey the law. How about the politicians obeying the law?

It is sickening and disheartning. there are no honest men in DC Government, apparently nor elsewhere.The ones that should be voting are staying home. the special interest groups, promised their piece of the pie do the voting and the counting. All we see, in the media, and in their letters and press releases, is waht they are going to do for our Country, and then defend NSA Spying on Americans and traffic cameras and everything else because they "know" we don't remember what they said yesterday. Banking the Fed and Corporate Interest and Corporate sponsored Law and policing and no economic security policies for the US and so on. They are all liars and traitors to the Citizens and the Republic. They are all that is offered for our votes.My /Senators won't even respond any more because I got tired of being looked in the eye and smiled at and lied to or told the interest of the Country was the special interest they support and so on. Want your phone hacked write a critical letter to Reid.

DutchmenSport wrote:
I still don't get it ...

You're right you don't get it. The game is rigged. The camera operators shaves points, and the city winks to the game. Quick reds, incorrectly calibrated speed cameras, shorting the stop line. You say if everyone knows the cameras are there they can act accordingly. They have mobile cameras. They set them up at the place the speed changes on the streets that tourists use to enter the city and the sped drops from 50 to 30, They know that most people belief that the government won't cheat them and they know that the sheeple won't take the time to fight the system.

You talk about how everyone should just obey the law. How about the politicians obeying the law?

DutchmenSport wrote:


Like I said, I just don't get it.

No you don't.
bumpy

DutchmenSport wrote:

...
BUT if you all KNOW the camera's are there...

Place take a look at where the radar itself is located in this picture, and define "where":

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/03/319.asp

I still don't get it ... sorry I'm a pain in the ***. BUT if you all KNOW the camera's are there, then why do you push the limits and take chances that you might get lucky and still not get caught? So... if the entire city started retaliating by ACTUALLY stopping at stop signs, actually running SLOWER than the speed limits, were constantly aware that big brother is watching you and just waiting to "get you", then why do you still drive the envelope? Why not play the game a little. Once the speeding violation revenues dry up, the company with all the cameras will go out of business! Thus ... no need for cameras any more. Sounds like a simple solution ... if only you'll take control of your own actions! Why not put the 'city' out of business by not giving them any "business!" Your ability to follow traffic laws is truly something only YOU can control.

Like I said, I just don't get it. You know it's there, but you fight it, rather than playing along and putting it out of business!

Meanwhile:
Ohio judge favors camera speeding ticket refunds.........

60/40 is typical where the camera company pays the millions it takes to install the cameras. It has been shown to be common that when the contractor integrates the cameras into the traffic controls, they are reducing the yellow light time, sometimes by half. NHTSA has standards for how long the light should be yellow based on the speed and traffic density on a roadway, and many contractors were found to be ignoring those rules and setting yellow times well below the NHTSA standard for safety. Countless investigations have been done by Car & Driver, local newspapers, etc., and the majority of the time citizen complaints of aggressive ticketing were caused by reduced and insufficient yellow light times.

What's more, research indicates that these cameras have no significant positive impact on safety, and in some cases have INCREASED the accident rate at certain intersections, because panicked motorists slam on the brakes and increase the incidence of rear-end collisions.

Speed cameras are the same way...passed through a portion of I-78 in PA where the speed limit drops to 45 mph and is "camera-enforced". There was no lane shift, closures, or active construction, just a few barrels up.

Along the same lines as guns don't kill people, spoons don't make people fat, etc., VEHICLES DO NOT SPEED, their speed is controlled by the driver. VEHICLES do not run red lights it is the drivers who fail to stop as directed. So to write a ticket to a vehicle for committing a moving violation is like putting a rifle in jail for shooting somebody.

This whole concept is BS, a bald-faced revenue grab by local municipalities, and is unconstitutional no matter how you look at it.