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E15 Gas Introduced, Car Mfgs Warn Not To Use It

rk911
Explorer
Explorer
Clicky

the link takes you to a YouTube video, a clip from FBN on the new E-15 ethanol fuel now making its way so some gas stations. Many major car manufacturers have apparently warned customers that using this fuel may void their warranties.
Rich
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_________________________________
2016 Itasca Suncruiser 38Q
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'23 Jeep Wrangler JL
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& MaggieThe Wonder Beagle
71 REPLIES 71

yr2017
Explorer
Explorer
mlts22 wrote:
I still remember when "gasahol" was introduced in the US in the late 1970s/early 1980s. It managed to completely destroy the engine on a family member's 1978 Honda Accord


Ha - I used gasohol in both my 1978 Buick Riviera and a 1980 Toyota Corolla for several years - no damage.
Big AL
DOD - 02 APR 2020 - CANCER

down_home
Explorer II
Explorer II
There are a bunch, including corn farmers trying to convince, it is the greatest thing since sliced bread, blech and force everyone to use Ethanol.
Money is what the hole thing is about. If you can get a law passed to use your ethanol you will make billions.
I don't want it. I know what it has done to some of my engines.
I;m not going to use it unless it is the only thing available, whic is what the Money is trying to make happen.

BCSnob
Explorer
Explorer
Overview article:
Ethanol Fuels Ozone Increase

Empirical study unexpectedly finds that switch from gasoline to ethanol in flex-fuel vehicles raises ozone levels

A multiyear analysis of air quality, economics, and consumer behavior found that when fluctuations in the relative prices of fuels between 2009 and 2011 led a large fraction of drivers in Sรฃo Paulo, Brazil, to switch from ethanol to gasoline in flexible-fuel vehicles, local ozone concentrations fell by 20%. The study, which is the first of its kind to evaluate real-world multivariable data, as opposed to atmospheric modeling predictions, also found that the fuel switch tended to cause an increase in nitric oxide and CO levels (Nat. Geosci. 2014, DOI: 10.1038/ngeo2144). The analysis, which was conducted by economist Alberto Salvo of the National University of Singapore and chemist Franz M. Geiger of Northwestern University, accounts for numerous meteorological variables yet contradicts simulation results obtained with computer models tailored for conditions in Sรฃo Paulo. Commenting in Nature Geoscience, Sasha Madronich of the National Center for Atmospheric Research notes that this study โ€œshould be viewed as a gold standard for the type of analysis needed to evaluate the reliability of atmospheric chemistry models designed to simulate the effects of the transportation sector on air quality.โ€


original article:
Reduction in local ozone levels in urban Sรฃo Paulo due to a shift from ethanol to gasoline use

Ethanol-based vehicles are thought to generate less pollution than gasoline-based vehicles, because ethanol emissions contain lower concentrations of mono-nitrogen oxides than those from gasoline emissions. However, the predicted effect of various gasoline/ethanol blends on the concentration of atmospheric pollutants such as ozone varies between model and laboratory studies, including those that seek to simulate the same environmental conditions. Here, we report the consequences of a real-world shift in fuel use in the subtropical megacity of Sรฃo Paulo, Brazil, brought on by large-scale fluctuations in the price of ethanol relative to gasoline between 2009 and 2011. We use highly spatially and temporally resolved observations of road traffic levels, meteorology and pollutant concentrations, together with a consumer demand model, to show that ambient ozone concentrations fell by about 20% as the share of bi-fuel vehicles burning gasoline rose from 14 to 76%. In contrast, nitric oxide and carbon monoxide concentrations increased. We caution that although gasoline use seems to lower ozone levels in the Sรฃo Paulo metropolitan area relative to ethanol use, strategies to reduce ozone pollution require knowledge of the local chemistry and consideration of other pollutants, particularly fine particles.
Mark & Renee
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JaxDad
Explorer III
Explorer III
Jarlaxle wrote:
Greydog 1 wrote:
At 10% additives we are having engine problems all across the nation. 15% will do no improving on repair works. Corn gives you gas at times, but if you drink gasoline, it will kill you. This proves that corn and gas don't mix well.


Yet again: I have been burning ethanol-blend gas for almost twenty years...zero problems.


My aunt smoked a pack of cigarettes a day from the age of 17 till she died (cancer-free, but of a blood clot breaking loose and getting to her heart) at the age of 93.

I dare say thats not the norm either.

PastorCharlie
Explorer
Explorer
My MH has a "NO 85% ETHANOL" posted on fuel cap. 84% is good to go.

spoon059
Explorer II
Explorer II
In the DC area the stickers say 15% or less.
2015 Ram CTD
2015 Jayco 29QBS

Jarlaxle
Explorer II
Explorer II
ol Bombero-JC wrote:
Kurbennett wrote:
Ethanol has wrecked havoc with a lot of small engines. 10% blend has been seen to ruin gas tanks and engines on many motorcycles. Most motorcycle manufacturers recommend not using ethanol laden gas at all. Luckily non-ethanol gas stations do exist. Of course it does cost more, but you also see better mpg out of it.
Now as far as use of ethanol gas in RV's and possible consequences I have not seen any. I would not use a 15% blend though. As for rationing and shortages, the current higher costs of gas seem to be from our exporting of oil to other countries, versus a shortage.


Mostly incorrect!

UN-luckily, NON-ethanol gas stations are *VERY* few and *VERY* far between in some states..:(

In the most populous state in the USA (CA) you can count 'em on one hand - for the entire state..:(

UN-fortunately, ethanol is bad news for any gasoline powered engine, especially any engine that is not run frequently..:(
Motorcycles are just one example - RVers: think "generators"!
Antique autos are another.

Old ethanol gas *WILL* clog carb jets..:(

Be sure to add SeaFoam or StaBil to the tanks of *any* gasoline powered engine that is not run often.


Well, YEAH! If storing an engine, I have ALWAYS used stabilizer!
John and Elizabeth (Liz), with Briza the size XL tabby
St. Bernard Marm, cats Vierna and Maya...RIP. ๐Ÿ˜ž
Current rig:
1992 International Genesis school bus conversion

Jarlaxle
Explorer II
Explorer II
JaxDad wrote:
I've just about given up trying to overcome the government / greenies BS errrr..... I mean brainwashing on this crap.

People (EPA, CARB, etc., etc.) like to Bantu around 'labroratory proof' that there's no real energy loss, but most people don't buy their fuel from a lab-grade source, nor do they drive a 'perfect' vehicle.

The fuel they buy has significant moisture content (which not only has ZERO energy but it degrades the rest of the fuel, with pure gasoline water in the tanks from leaky lids or tanks just settles harmlessly to the bottom, with Ethanol it's absorbed), it fools the fuel management system (too much oxygenates) into thinking the engine is running too lean and enrichenes the mixture, and the rampant abuse in the system (station owners and distributors dumping large quantities of pure Ethanol in to bump up the percentages since it's a huge profit opportunity doing so).

It's not uncommon to have E10 that is actually only 70% gasoline, 80% seems to be about the average.

Just do a little Google'ing and see how many folks there are complaint about the spread between EPA mileage figures and 'real world' figures. That's the same as the difference between what the gov. says you'll get with E10 or E15 and what you actually get.


My Magnum & my first Caprice were dead-on the EPA highway mileage on straight gas; both took about a 1MPG hit (4-5%) on E10. My Dakota also seems to match the EPA rating.
John and Elizabeth (Liz), with Briza the size XL tabby
St. Bernard Marm, cats Vierna and Maya...RIP. ๐Ÿ˜ž
Current rig:
1992 International Genesis school bus conversion

Jarlaxle
Explorer II
Explorer II
Greydog 1 wrote:
The advantage is 15% ethanol is equal to 15% more damage to internal car parts where ethanol passes thru. This will triple your labor bills at the mechanics shop. The Mechanics will thank you for putting more food on their tables and less on yours.


I have been running ethanol-blend gas in 30+ year old engines (cars, trucks, an ancient riding mower, and an ancient generator) without a problem. If E15 comes around...well, I still have my tackle box of carb tuning parts, not a problem.
John and Elizabeth (Liz), with Briza the size XL tabby
St. Bernard Marm, cats Vierna and Maya...RIP. ๐Ÿ˜ž
Current rig:
1992 International Genesis school bus conversion

Jarlaxle
Explorer II
Explorer II
Greydog 1 wrote:
At 10% additives we are having engine problems all across the nation. 15% will do no improving on repair works. Corn gives you gas at times, but if you drink gasoline, it will kill you. This proves that corn and gas don't mix well.


Yet again: I have been burning ethanol-blend gas for almost twenty years...zero problems.
John and Elizabeth (Liz), with Briza the size XL tabby
St. Bernard Marm, cats Vierna and Maya...RIP. ๐Ÿ˜ž
Current rig:
1992 International Genesis school bus conversion

mpierce
Explorer
Explorer
A lot of pumps say "up to 10%" so may be less. 10% has been max for years. So, to say that % has been increasing all along, is just not correct. Of course, I am sure you read that it has been increasing on some anti-ethanol internet site, so IT MUST BE TRUE.

down_home
Explorer II
Explorer II
I've seen a few pumps, maybe a couple, advertising 15% around southeast Tn somewhere. Don't remember exact location.

Turtle_n_Peeps
Explorer
Explorer
RAS43 wrote:
Can anyone say that they have seen gas pumps that actually list the ethanol content at 15%? I haven't and called a couple of fuel suppliers and they say no plans to change as the EPA is wavering on this-noted in my earlier response. I think Caveman is right!


I don't know about other states but in Ca it's been 10% and has been that way for many years.
~ Too many freaks & not enough circuses ~


"Life is not tried ~ it is merely survived ~ if you're standing
outside the fire"

"The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly."- Abraham Lincoln

RAS43
Explorer III
Explorer III
Can anyone say that they have seen gas pumps that actually list the ethanol content at 15%? I haven't and called a couple of fuel suppliers and they say no plans to change as the EPA is wavering on this-noted in my earlier response. I think Caveman is right!