electric PU that can tow 11,000lbs

Same as when you hand over your money to the bank to pay the mortgage, landlord to pay rent or the grocer to get food. The money is no longer yours. The bank, land owner, grocer then do what they want with the money.

Same as I pay my taxes and the people in government spend the money. Sure I have a vote, can run for office, protest, or write a letter to my representative. And still the money is with the government to be spent as collectively agreed by the government officials not me. Government controls the money... the money is effectively theirs. There is no refund if I don't like the program the government chooses. Golly help us that the government makes a good spending decision now and then.

If you think the EV tax credit is a big deal why no complaints about what is spent to protect oil? Should oil not be self sustaining? BTW there is an end to the EV tax credit with the first phase out January 1.

Now the thread can be locked as we are a bit off topic and into the political realm.

BTW the war of independence was not just about tax as much as lack of representation. No vote, no tax.

In both of those videos in the two links to above, the reader needs to do what I have learned with regards to all YouTube videos: If you really want to come to a true conclusion from watching the YouTube video, you best read through the other viewers' comments about the video.

For instance, by reading the comments down under the first EV video above, you really learn how they do in the extreme cold. As might be expected, the picture becomes much clearer on how they do in cold weather, and there are definitely issues that I would not want to deal with.

They might be "OK" for short trip or urban use in cold weather or extremely hot weather ... but for general transportation use where you might mix in long trips and short trips as needed to anywhere in any weather, a good old ICE vehicle is more reliable and versatile ... still ... and probably for quite some time yet.

mowermech wrote:

free radical wrote:

mowermech wrote:
As with all electric vehicles, I need to know how far it will go at night, in a snowstorm, at 20 below zero, with lights, heat, defrost, wipers, etc. running full blast.
Of course, I also need to know how far it will go between charges in 105 degree heat, with air conditioning running.
Now, add a Travel Trailer with a GVW of 10,750 lbs. to the mix, plus 5 190 pound people and a couple hundred pounds of tools and miscellaneous.
NOW how far will it go on a full charge, and how long weill it take to fully re-charge it?
It is always easy to brag about how wonderful something is under ideal conditions, but what about in the real world where we all live, where the conditions are often (if not usually) less than ideal?

This is how Tesla car handles winter..

https://youtu.be/D2gmphV8IZQ

How Rivian truck will perform is anyones guess right now..

Id wait for Tesla truck,for one they have 11.000 Superchargers out there so going long distance is no problem and their tech is way ahead of anyone else..

Interesting video. However, keep in mind that the "severe cold" the narrator was describing is measured in Celsius, not Fahrenheit. His "20 below zero" is about 0 degrees F. Also, "wind chill" only affects bare skin; it has no effect on machinery.
My question was about the range at 20 below zero F, with cabin heat, defrost, lights, stereo, wipers, etc. operating.
I would really hate to be on U.S. Highway 2 across Northern Montana ("the high-line"), in January, in a blizzard, at midnight, 50 miles from the nearest town and 5 to 10 miles from the nearest ranch house, finding myself stuck because the anticipated range didn't work.
Bummer, to say the least! Yes, it would be due to my own stupidity, not the least of which was taking the damfool EV on a long trip in that kind of weather!

By all means stick w whatever youre comfortable driving.

No one is forcing you to buy EV,,besides Tesla has half a milion orders from customers waiting to get one and Rivian will no doubt sell each one they can make too.

Tesla has proven its reliability even in coldest places such as Norway at minus 36c thats 33f no problems keeping warm sleeping in it overnight :B

https://youtu.be/capOgUHPz9Q

time2roll wrote:
No one is taxed extra for not buying an EV.

Hmmm ... a couple of points because I don't get your point:

1. We are taxed more and more all the time for subsidy dole-outs for a whole bunch of reasons that may or may not include broad spectrums of individual taxpayers that may be paying the taxes.

2. We are taxed more and more all the time to cover spending bills passed containing all sorts of special interest excuses as to why the new money is needed.

P.S. However, I have no problem with my tax dollars being used to support government based research into better energy-per-unit-volume batteries than lithium, way more efficient solar panels, hydrogen powered fuel cells, and small scale nuclear fusion reactors.

pnichols wrote:
TeeHee ... don't you mean "anything is possible with sufficient taxpayer subsidies..."?

No one is taxed extra for not buying an EV. You are taxed based on the laws in place. Once collected, the tax is the government's money.

Similar to telling the LEO that you pay his salary and to go ticket someone else. Go ahead see how far that flies.

There is virtually no connection between government expenditures and taxation. Does not work like a condo association.

kellertx5er wrote:

Beentherefixedthat wrote:
Deosn't anyone here read the papers? Or the Automotive Press?

A Class 8 Electric truck has been produced that will haul 80,000 lbs for 300 miles before recharge. ( It is still in development and not for sale right now)

The pickup and your TT is small change to this.

The naysayers and nabobs of negativity to say nothing of the Luddites among us hold us back and and continue to not understand the technology they are facing in the near future.

And my understanding from visiting a Tesla dealership if you recharge at their stations (which are proprietary) it's free...

Yeah, anything is possible with sufficient government subsidies...

TeeHee ... don't you mean "anything is possible with sufficient taxpayer subsidies..."?

mowermech wrote:
As with all electric vehicles, I need to know how far it will go at night, in a snowstorm, at 20 below zero, with lights, heat, defrost, wipers, etc. running full blast.
Of course, I also need to know how far it will go between charges in 105 degree heat, with air conditioning running.
Now, add a Travel Trailer with a GVW of 10,750 lbs. to the mix, plus 5 190 pound people and a couple hundred pounds of tools and miscellaneous.
NOW how far will it go on a full charge, and how long weill it take to fully re-charge it?
It is always easy to brag about how wonderful something is under ideal conditions, but what about in the real world where we all live, where the conditions are often (if not usually) less than ideal?

Jon,

Outstanding perceptions above .... and exactly how I feel.

It's pretty tough to contain in any batteries yet available the energy per cubic inch that gasoline and diesel do ... and then fill those batteries in 7-10 minutes while others are waiting in line behind you.

... And the last time I checked gobs of ICE or electrical horsepower and torque is of no help when traction is lacking.

Unfortunately the GeeWhiz factor will probably over-rule those who carefully think out and evaluate new stuff like we do, with the end result that they'll sell - or should I say be financed - like hotcakes. It's interesting watching a sucker or two being born every minute.

And BTW, we do have a horse residing on our property that should be good for 25-30 years with not one battery replacement required.

Beentherefixedthat wrote:
Deosn't anyone here read the papers? Or the Automotive Press?

A Class 8 Electric truck has been produced that will haul 80,000 lbs for 300 miles before recharge. ( It is still in development and not for sale right now)

The pickup and your TT is small change to this.

The naysayers and nabobs of negativity to say nothing of the Luddites among us hold us back and and continue to not understand the technology they are facing in the near future.

And my understanding from visiting a Tesla dealership if you recharge at their stations (which are proprietary) it's free...

Yeah, anything is possible with sufficient government subsidies...

Where does it say that the 400 mile range is possible while towing or under load?

It is my understanding that time travel is under development and will be available "soon"...

As to being a Luddite, I took my first computer course in school in 1974, I purchased my first computer in 1981 and have worked at a high level in computers/neteorking/technology for over 30 years... (I took a 10 year sabbatical in the Miltary...)

Electric vehicles functioning in any fashion like they keep telling us is far from "just around the corner"... The lawsuits that will come from autonomous vehicles causing accidents and deaths will put the industry a decade or two for a start.