Fire in the 12VDC system

[jamnw]

2014 Keystone (camper in my signature)

July 7th, 1pm.
We had just arrived at the cg and getting set up.
Red Gate Campground in Savannah GA
The CG really is nice and helpful. Nice looking place too.

I was not plugged in to AC, and was putting out the slide. The slide stopped, and I smelled/saw smoke from the front of the camper.

The battery wires were smoking! Luckily I had already disconnected the truck. I jumped in the truck and pulled away. Then ran back, got the fire extinguisher and attempted to put out the fire.

I used all of my extinguisher, and the fire stopped briefly, then came back! I ran to the camper next to us, and luckily he had an extinguisher. We put out the fire again, then the battery cap blew off while I was spraying it. Scared me to death!
I had to get that fire out, I had two full 30lb propane tanks in the compartment! I've seen what happens when they blow.

Luckily nobody was injured, and the neighbor had an extinguisher.

After getting the battery removed, and purchasing some magnetic trailer lights from the local parts store, I was back on the road with no trailer brakes!
Went to a hotel for the night then on the road in the morning.
Just slow and steady, keeping a 5 second distance between me and the cars ahead, always trying to anticipate any sudden stops. Had no issues, but I was worn out after.
Almost 600 miles like that....

I have a new respect for that little motor that runs my slide in/out after having to hand crank it back in with a ratchet. And then again back out when I got home. And the motor that raises/lowers the landing gear!

I purchased this camper in 2015 as new from Camping World in Chattanooga TN, and I purchased the extended warranty. We shall see if it was worth the price.

[Proudcanuck]

I have just had a similar problem rectified, after struggling for about a month to try and resolve it.
It starter with the 30A fuse (that is between the battery and junction box) blowing when we tried to camp without power.
When we got back on power, everything worked.
Then eventually nothing worked, plugged in or not.

We tugged, poked, prodded, wrapped things in electrical tape, took things apart, put them back together, priced out converters.... tried it all!

Finally took it to service department as some troubleshooting suggested by a member here, pointed to a short in the 4' section of wire we couldn't see - from junction box to disconnect switch, it runs in the floor void.
In the end, that was the issue! The wire was pinched between floor and frame. For seven years (I bought this new in 2010) it has been wearing away and just now causing issues.

So glad we solved it but it'd sure be nice if they were just built properly to start with.

[SCVJeff]

time2roll wrote:
Could you pinch some #6 to the frame just right to make fire without tripping a 50 amp breaker?
Doubt it would be easy. Probably take a bit of practice.

yeah but I'm a vibrating anomaly rolling down the road with nobody watching what I'm doing. Gimme a chance....

[MrWizard]

i won't argue about what they 'should' cover

but they declined the battery,
you can't win that one with outgoing to court
which could end up being a draw, even if you win m after you factor in time spent and possible court costs, and other inconvenience, like finding a new insurance company, if they cancel you after you win the battery argument

you got to know when to fold, and walk away

and yes i'm very aware of battery 'costs'

[jamnw]

MrWizard wrote:
I know i would like 'full coverage' of all expense involved

but i think i would not make to big an issue about the cost of the battery

in my line of thinking, it falls into my car was damaged in a crash and they don't want to pay for the spilled gas

the cost of the battery versus the cost of the other repairs

I would consider this, as write off the battery as my loss,

Have you priced batteries lately?

I appreciate your input. But, I didn't do anything wrong. So yes, the warranty company should make good on this. They accepted the responsibility of this when they took my money.

[jamnw]

time2roll wrote:
Could you pinch some #6 to the frame just right to make fire without tripping a 50 amp breaker?
Doubt it would be easy. Probably take a bit of practice.

It had a self-resetting breaker at the battery. Breaker obviously failed also.

[time2roll]

Could you pinch some #6 to the frame just right to make fire without tripping a 50 amp breaker?
Doubt it would be easy. Probably take a bit of practice.

[SCVJeff]

time2roll wrote:
Still a fuse or breaker should open before anything is that hot.
I agree a replacement battery should be part of the covered repair as a burned component.

give me 12v, a 5A fuse and election of 1/4w resistors and watch the fire I can create. If fuses and breakers prevented fires there would be no need for fire sprinklers

[MrWizard]

I know i would like 'full coverage' of all expense involved

but i think i would not make to big an issue about the cost of the battery

in my line of thinking, it falls into my car was damaged in a crash and they don't want to pay for the spilled gas

the cost of the battery versus the cost of the other repairs

I would consider this, as write off the battery as my loss,

[time2roll]

Still a fuse or breaker should open before anything is that hot.
I agree a replacement battery should be part of the covered repair as a burned component.

[wnjj]

My sister's Outback had the same flaw with the main battery cables smashed between the steel frame and the 2x4 wall framing. Theirs had a circuit breaker at the battery that was repeatedly tripping that we noticed upon arriving at camp.

We disconnected the battery and starting checking things out, eventually discovering the issue. We were able to pull a wheel and pry the wall 2x4 up a bit. We then could pull some slack in the cables out past the frame and wrapped the bare spots up with electrical tape. When done, we pushed the wires back through, clear of the 2x4 and frame. It wasn't easy since there there multiple wires, wrapped around each other and the space we had after prying could only fit one wire.

It sure seems like a breaker near the battery should be a standard item when the consequences include fire and/or exploding batteries.

[jamnw]

My camper is currently being repaired and covered by GS ESP.
CW did find the cause of the issue.

The 12V positive feed was inadvertently run between the floor and the frame when the camper was built.

The issue I am having is that ESP does not want to cover the cost of the battery.
They say batteries are not covered by the warranty. I understand they are not covered if they just go bad. Batteries are a consumable item, like tires. But this wasn't a battery issue. The battery caught on fire because of the wiring issue.

I have posted in the GS ESP forum.

https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/29396788/p/1.cfm

[time2roll]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
I would not trust a trailer that nobody can figure out why the safety systems did not work.

He said the main feed from the panel to battery was burned. Generally there is a fuse in the breaker panel at the converter source and at the other end is a junk self resetting circuit breaker at the battery source. One guess what failed to stop power when the fault occurred.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

I would not trust a trailer that nobody can figure out why the safety systems did not work.

[westend]

jamnw wrote:
I just got the call from CW in Biloxi. The warranty company has approved replacing the wiring in my camper. But NOT the battery....
The service agent at CW is shocked they approved the repair because they can't determine the exact cause.

The wiring is burned from the battery to the converter. The feed wires and a lot of the distribution wires. From what I could tell, the 12V feed wires were run with the distribution wires. They appear to have been loosely zip-tied to the metal cross members of the frame. It appears to me the 12V positive feed wire grounded to the frame causing the wire to get hot and catch fire. Why the protection devices at the battery didn't prevent this is a mystery.

I'd suggest to remove any circuit breakers and fuse holders that were original. Replace them with adequately sized marine circuit breakers. I have little faith in those auto-resetting breakers in a small tin can.