GCVWR question

[RaodKingHarley]

The 2012 Expedition is rated for 9200 lb towing, GVWR 7300 and GCVWR 15000 lb

My TT is 9500 lb GVWR 6895 + 2605


My question is in regard to the extra weight of the trailer weight vs the GVWR of the trailer. Does this actually mean anything if the trailer is not loaded to capacity?

Would DOT have an issue with the ratings vs actual weight.

[APT]

You will likely exceed the receiver rating of ~950 pounds well below the tow rating when towing an RV. Towing a big empty box needs closer to 15 percent TW than 10 percent to remain stable.

[RaodKingHarley]

JIMNLIN wrote:
DOT doesn't use the vehicle GVWR or GCWR.
GCWR isn't stickered on any vehicle.

DOT also won't use the vehicle GVWR to determine a overloaded vehicle.

And DOT doesn't use the vehicle mfg tow rating for anything.

Any vehicle on the road can be weighed.
If your stopped for a over weight condition it can go like this paste and copy from a state motor vehicle size and weight commander who was asked about exceeding GVWR/GCWR and replied; snipped for length;
...."Vehicle Code (CVC) does not contain a law that
specifically limits the amount of weight a vehicle may tow based on the
towing vehicle GVWR or GCWR. There are, however, laws that limit the
amount a vehicle may tow based on other criteria.

".....prohibits the loading of tires above the maximum load rating marked on the tire,
or if unmarked the maximum load rating as specified in the applicable
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard, or in a publication furnished to
the public by the tire manufacturer. This would most likely happen in
the case of a pickup truck towing a large fifth wheel travel trailer, as
those types of trailers tend to transfer a larger portion of their
weight to the last axle of the towing unit causing that axle to exceed
the tire load limits."

I towed for a living some years back. I also used my one ton DRW trucks to pull a rv trailer or carry a heavy truck camper. Because of the dot/MC number I had to pull into all scale houses. Let them know your pulling your own Rv for recreational purposes......you had better be able to prove the rv is yours. If its registered to someone else they will assume your hauling for hire. That can mean lots of time in the impound lane explaining things.
Some haulers remove their magnetic signs when towing or carrying their RVs. Check with your dot guys on what you may run into.

Good points

I will check with the DOT on the need for regulated vehicle regulations when towing my RV for personal use.

[JIMNLIN]

DOT doesn't use the vehicle GVWR or GCWR.
GCWR isn't stickered on any vehicle.

DOT also won't use the vehicle GVWR to determine a overloaded vehicle.

And DOT doesn't use the vehicle mfg tow rating for anything.

Any vehicle on the road can be weighed.
If your stopped for a over weight condition it can go like this paste and copy from a state motor vehicle size and weight commander who was asked about exceeding GVWR/GCWR and replied; snipped for length;
...."Vehicle Code (CVC) does not contain a law that
specifically limits the amount of weight a vehicle may tow based on the
towing vehicle GVWR or GCWR. There are, however, laws that limit the
amount a vehicle may tow based on other criteria.

".....prohibits the loading of tires above the maximum load rating marked on the tire,
or if unmarked the maximum load rating as specified in the applicable
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard, or in a publication furnished to
the public by the tire manufacturer. This would most likely happen in
the case of a pickup truck towing a large fifth wheel travel trailer, as
those types of trailers tend to transfer a larger portion of their
weight to the last axle of the towing unit causing that axle to exceed
the tire load limits."

I towed for a living some years back. I also used my one ton DRW trucks to pull a rv trailer or carry a heavy truck camper. Because of the dot/MC number I had to pull into all scale houses. Let them know your pulling your own Rv for recreational purposes......you had better be able to prove the rv is yours. If its registered to someone else they will assume your hauling for hire. That can mean lots of time in the impound lane explaining things.
Some haulers remove their magnetic signs when towing or carrying their RVs. Check with your dot guys on what you may run into.

[IDoMyOwnStunts]

RaodKingHarley wrote:

IDoMyOwnStunts wrote:

IDoMyOwnStunts wrote:
To answer your last question first, as long as you aren't exceeding federal weight limits of 500 lbs per inch of tire, 20000 lbs per axle, or 34000 lbs per tandem axle, they don't care about your RV. They are interested in commercial traffic.

As far as your first question, you really would need to weigh the combination. If you are loaded, ready to camp, and under the payload, GVWR, and GCVWR of your Expedition plus under your trailer's GVWR, you are within ratings. If not, you'll have to decide whether you, as someone on here put it, believe in the ratings or not. The actual weights are what counts.

A word of caution: I tried to make something like what you are doing work with my F150. My trailer has a GVW of 10k, but being a toy hauler, had a lot of cargo capacity. Without toys, I was under my vehicle's tow rating of 9200 lbs. But I was never comfortable towing it, even after upgrading the suspension, receiver, weight distribution bars, and tires. When I finally weighed it and found it to be 1600 lbs on the tongue, that was an eye opener (dry tongue weight was 987). If I had instead invested that money in a new tow vehicle, I would have been far better off. Eventually I did. So if you are looking at a tow vehicle for your trailer and haven't bought it yet, I would advise you to consider something more robust.

I'm not trying to be the weight police here. But if I could help somebody else not go through what I did, then I will. Good luck!

Thanks


The Expedition is a commercial vehicle as in owned by a company. I'm just not sure if the 10,001 lb rule applies if I'm pulling an RV and not working. If required I need to have company name and USDOT numbers on the door, DOT registration, log book, inspection, medical card, etc. I have none of this.

As I can get these things I was wondering if DOT will go by actual weight vs GCVWR of the vehicle or by GVWR of trailer + GVWR of Truck which is over the GCVWR of the Ex by 300 lbs.

I am towing the camper 1,000 miles and it will be in a park for quite some time. Possibly for years.

Not having all of the required DOT stuff I am towing it with my F250 this time. Just checking this for the time I would want to use the Ex. If the 300 lbs is an issue I'll just get another company truck to pull it if I need to.

As far as handling the camper it will. I don't plan on hauling it with a heavy load like with water in the tanks if I pull it with the Ex. I don't have a brake controller and mirrors yet but if it's not legal I'm not going to bother getting them.

I highly doubt you'll be stopped if you don't have the company name on the door. But I don't know if using a company vehicle for personal use exempts you from the scales if you're over 10k. I live near a set of scales and have seen contractor trucks pulled over for not entering. If you want to be on the up and up, you should probably call your local DOT office.

[Bumpyroad]

GVWR is the maximum it should weigh. if you are well below that your TV is rated to pull it.
bumpy

[r___r]

RaodKingHarley wrote:
The 2012 Expedition is rated for 9200 lb towing, GVWR 7300 and GCVWR 15000 lb

My TT is 9500 lb GVWR 6895 + 2605


My question is in regard to the extra weight of the trailer weight vs the GVWR of the trailer. Does this actually mean anything if the trailer is not loaded to capacity?

Would DOT have an issue with the ratings vs actual weight.

The only time these weights will be questioned by the authorities is if your looking unsafe going down the road, or, in an accident.

Personally, with the family riding, I'd want a bigger TV to handle that trailer.



Maybe this is similar info already posted, but:

With the numbers you have, 7300 lbs. and 9500 lbs. puts you over the GCWR by 1800 lbs. Your TT GVWR is 300 lbs. more than the Expedition is rated to tow.

But, using the 'Curb' weight of the Ex. and the 'Dry' weight of the TT as starting numbers make it possible to work.

15,000 lbs. GCWR.
With the 7300 lb. GVWR, you have 1751 lbs. of leeway to load the Expedition of people, tools, payload, weight distribution hitch, etc.(make sure not to overload your Axle or Tire weight ratings); and, with your TT 'Dry' Weight of 6895 lbs. that allows you 805 lbs. of stuff to put in the TT to reach the 15,000 lb. GCWR.

GVWR of the trailer is already given, but, what do you mean by 'extra weight of the trailer weight' ? The most your trailer can weigh is 9200 lbs. because of the Expedition, which would mean you can only add 251 lbs. to the Expeditions 'Dry' weight of 5549 lbs. to be legal of 15,000 lbs. GCWR.

[RaodKingHarley]

Golden_HVAC wrote:

RaodKingHarley wrote:
The 2012 Expedition is rated for 9200 lb towing, GVWR 7300 and GCVWR 15000 lb

My TT is 9500 lb GVWR 6895 + 2605


My question is in regard to the extra weight of the trailer weight vs the GVWR of the trailer. Does this actually mean anything if the trailer is not loaded to capacity?

Would DOT have an issue with the ratings vs actual weight.

So Ford takes a stripped down model of the Expedition, with no options, and finds it is 5,650 pounds, so with a 154 pound driver and no passengers, it's curb weight is 5,800 pounds. Add a 9,200 pound trailer, and you are at the stated GCVWR of 15,000 pounds.

So you "Can" tow 9,200 pounds if your Expedition is only 5,800 pound curb weight with your family in it, and the dog, camping gear ext.

The hitch weight is both part of the trailer and Expedition, so don't add it twice. With a realistic curb weight with passengers of say 6,100 pounds and a GVWR of 7,300 pounds, you are limited to only a 1,200 pound hitch weight. That is more than most travels trailers would come in at.

Again subtracting a realistic 6,100 pound curb weight from your GCVWR of 15,000 pounds, that leave you with a towing ability around 8,900 pounds.

Can you tow a trailer with a 10,000 GVWR and 800 pound hitch weight and curb weight of 8,000 pounds? Sure, and you will be under the GCVWR by 900 pounds IF the curb weight of your Expedition is only 6,100 pounds and your trailer is only 8,000 pounds.

The GCVWR is more for warranty reasons, so they can say you towed a 15,000 pound monster trailer and now wonder the transmission overheated and melted down the clutch packs inside. If you are over by a couple hundred pounds, but still under on all your tire weights, you are still fine. Now if you have to much hitch weight, and overload the rear tires, that is dangerous, and can happen even if you are under the GCVWR and just did not use a weight distribution hitch.

That is why you take the Expedition to a scale before buying a trailer, and have them agree that if the empty trailer hitch weight is more than 300 pounds above the brochure listed weight you will be bringing this thing back to get a refund. Perhaps the dealership will invest in a hitch scale, they are only about $100. It is placed under the jack post, and then when the hitch is raised off the hitch ball, it will give the hitch weight.



Good luck,

Fred.

Thanks for the info

So I need to look at the Ex weight and possibly 900 to 1000 lbs tongue weight with the trailer not to exceed 7300. Should not be an issue if properly loaded and no water in the camper.

Camper will be well under GVWR.

GVWR of camper + GVWR of truck is 300 lbs over GCVWR but if that's not a legal limit then I should be okay if I don't get over the 7300 lb GVWR of the truck. The truck is a commercial vehicle. Everything on it is standard, just the driver @ 200 lbs. 250 lbs fuel.

I think the camper will be a total weight of 8500 lbs or less. So that's 14,800 lbs.

I do have a 10,000 lb Eaz-lift hitch

[RaodKingHarley]

IDoMyOwnStunts wrote:

IDoMyOwnStunts wrote:
To answer your last question first, as long as you aren't exceeding federal weight limits of 500 lbs per inch of tire, 20000 lbs per axle, or 34000 lbs per tandem axle, they don't care about your RV. They are interested in commercial traffic.

As far as your first question, you really would need to weigh the combination. If you are loaded, ready to camp, and under the payload, GVWR, and GCVWR of your Expedition plus under your trailer's GVWR, you are within ratings. If not, you'll have to decide whether you, as someone on here put it, believe in the ratings or not. The actual weights are what counts.

A word of caution: I tried to make something like what you are doing work with my F150. My trailer has a GVW of 10k, but being a toy hauler, had a lot of cargo capacity. Without toys, I was under my vehicle's tow rating of 9200 lbs. But I was never comfortable towing it, even after upgrading the suspension, receiver, weight distribution bars, and tires. When I finally weighed it and found it to be 1600 lbs on the tongue, that was an eye opener (dry tongue weight was 987). If I had instead invested that money in a new tow vehicle, I would have been far better off. Eventually I did. So if you are looking at a tow vehicle for your trailer and haven't bought it yet, I would advise you to consider something more robust.

I'm not trying to be the weight police here. But if I could help somebody else not go through what I did, then I will. Good luck!

Thanks


The Expedition is a commercial vehicle as in owned by a company. I'm just not sure if the 10,001 lb rule applies if I'm pulling an RV and not working. If required I need to have company name and USDOT numbers on the door, DOT registration, log book, inspection, medical card, etc. I have none of this.

As I can get these things I was wondering if DOT will go by actual weight vs GCVWR of the vehicle or by GVWR of trailer + GVWR of Truck which is over the GCVWR of the Ex by 300 lbs.

I am towing the camper 1,000 miles and it will be in a park for quite some time. Possibly for years.

Not having all of the required DOT stuff I am towing it with my F250 this time. Just checking this for the time I would want to use the Ex. If the 300 lbs is an issue I'll just get another company truck to pull it if I need to.

As far as handling the camper it will. I don't plan on hauling it with a heavy load like with water in the tanks if I pull it with the Ex. I don't have a brake controller and mirrors yet but if it's not legal I'm not going to bother getting them.

[Golden_HVAC]

RaodKingHarley wrote:
The 2012 Expedition is rated for 9200 lb towing, GVWR 7300 and GCVWR 15000 lb

My TT is 9500 lb GVWR 6895 + 2605


My question is in regard to the extra weight of the trailer weight vs the GVWR of the trailer. Does this actually mean anything if the trailer is not loaded to capacity?

Would DOT have an issue with the ratings vs actual weight.

So Ford takes a stripped down model of the Expedition, with no options, and finds it is 5,650 pounds, so with a 154 pound driver and no passengers, it's curb weight is 5,800 pounds. Add a 9,200 pound trailer, and you are at the stated GCVWR of 15,000 pounds.

So you "Can" tow 9,200 pounds if your Expedition is only 5,800 pound curb weight with your family in it, and the dog, camping gear ext.

The hitch weight is both part of the trailer and Expedition, so don't add it twice. With a realistic curb weight with passengers of say 6,100 pounds and a GVWR of 7,300 pounds, you are limited to only a 1,200 pound hitch weight. That is more than most travels trailers would come in at.

Again subtracting a realistic 6,100 pound curb weight from your GCVWR of 15,000 pounds, that leave you with a towing ability around 8,900 pounds.

Can you tow a trailer with a 10,000 GVWR and 800 pound hitch weight and curb weight of 8,000 pounds? Sure, and you will be under the GCVWR by 900 pounds IF the curb weight of your Expedition is only 6,100 pounds and your trailer is only 8,000 pounds.

The GCVWR is more for warranty reasons, so they can say you towed a 15,000 pound monster trailer and now wonder the transmission overheated and melted down the clutch packs inside. If you are over by a couple hundred pounds, but still under on all your tire weights, you are still fine. Now if you have to much hitch weight, and overload the rear tires, that is dangerous, and can happen even if you are under the GCVWR and just did not use a weight distribution hitch.

That is why you take the Expedition to a scale before buying a trailer, and have them agree that if the empty trailer hitch weight is more than 300 pounds above the brochure listed weight you will be bringing this thing back to get a refund. Perhaps the dealership will invest in a hitch scale, they are only about $100. It is placed under the jack post, and then when the hitch is raised off the hitch ball, it will give the hitch weight.



Good luck,

Fred.

[IDoMyOwnStunts]

IDoMyOwnStunts wrote:
To answer your last question first, as long as you aren't exceeding federal weight limits of 500 lbs per inch of tire, 20000 lbs per axle, or 34000 lbs per tandem axle, they don't care about your RV. They are interested in commercial traffic.

As far as your first question, you really would need to weigh the combination. If you are loaded, ready to camp, and under the payload, GVWR, and GCVWR of your Expedition plus under your trailer's GVWR, you are within ratings. If not, you'll have to decide whether you, as someone on here put it, believe in the ratings or not. The actual weights are what counts.

A word of caution: I tried to make something like what you are doing work with my F150. My trailer has a GVW of 10k, but being a toy hauler, had a lot of cargo capacity. Without toys, I was under my vehicle's tow rating of 9200 lbs. But I was never comfortable towing it, even after upgrading the suspension, receiver, weight distribution bars, and tires. When I finally weighed it and found it to be 1600 lbs on the tongue, that was an eye opener (dry tongue weight was 987). If I had instead invested that money in a new tow vehicle, I would have been far better off. Eventually I did. So if you are looking at a tow vehicle for your trailer and haven't bought it yet, I would advise you to consider something more robust.

I'm not trying to be the weight police here. But if I could help somebody else not go through what I did, then I will. Good luck!