Glacier National Park starting ticketed Entry

[bobsallyh]

https://flatheadbeacon.com/2021/03/31/glacier-national-park-unveils-ticketed-entry-system-for-sun-road/

I'm sure there are going to be questions and local pushback.

[Mayor30]

We were recently in San Antonio and needed advance tickets to see the Alamo. You can download them to your email and show it on your phone. Real easy.

[magicbus]

Makes me all the more glad I visited our National Parks multiple times 20 years ago. Would I like to again, yes, but I expect it would be so different it would be painful.
Dave

[RAS43]

Yes, the senior pass still works fine.

[C_Schomer]

Does the Senior Pass still work to drive through the NPs? Is the extra $25/$35 pass only if you don't have a Senior Pass? Craig

[2g_s]

naturist wrote:
In contrast to our visit to Glacier NP ten years ago, which I posted about above, was our visit to Denali NP in Alaska in June of 2019. For those who have never been there, you can't just drive in and wander around. Although the park is vast, one of the larger ones in the world, you can only drive into the edge of the park. From there, getting into the interior of the park requires a shuttle bus ride. The longest bus trip into the park, that takes you as close to the mountain itself, is an approximately 10 hour round trip.

Things will change this summer. You'll be able to drive your vehicle all the way to Teklanika campground. You must reserve online at a $25 cost and only 25 permits/day.

https://www.nps.gov/dena/planyourvisit/conditions.htm

As to the comment that we should be able to go where we want and when in our national parks.... no, not possible with the crowds of today. Our parks are being loved to death. They need to regulate somehow to keep the crowds manageable. I predict we'll see more permits needed.

[lbrjet]

The major parks have been crowded for years. Mornings not so much. Plan your must do/see activities in the mornings and you won't be disappointed.

I totally disagree with limiting folks from other countries.

[valhalla360]

FWC wrote:
For context, those that enjoy the backcountry of the National Parks have dealt with limited numbers, permits and lotteries for a long time. Yes it can be disappointing when you can't get the backpacking, rafting, climbing or canyoneering trip on the day you wanted (or at all). But most agree that for the wilderness to remain wild, you need to manage the visitation and impact and can't have a free-for-all.

I personally would prefer to have a less frequent but experience-of-a-lifetime type experience in the wilderness than to be able to go whenever I want and have to play bumper boats on the Grand or race people for campsites on the Teton Crest Trail. Obviously visitation will be higher and the experience is less wild in the front country, but it still comes to the point where the crowding detracts from the experience for everyone.

One thing I do hope is that if/when they do go to reserved/permitted entry, that the commercial operators don't get to jump the queue. This is a huge issue with backcountry use, where a certain percentage of permitts are reserved for a small number of commercial operators, meaning they are not available to the general public.

The issue here is not should we manage the park use but the end around methods of blame it on covid as a false justification, when there may be better solutions.

[valhalla360]

FWC wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

Other than this past year, which is an anomaly, many of the parks are heavily traveled by foreigners. Particularly they busiest parks.

Nothing xenophobic about it. As the owners, citizens should have first access if we need to reduce numbers as you suggest.

Will we have to show our papers to enter the parks?

Even before the pandemic, foreign visitors made up 9% of the visitation to Glacier, and only 6% of visitation to Zion, so restricting foreign visitation will not solve the issue.

I believe that sharing the worlds cultural and natural treasures brings people together. It would be really sad if Egypt decided to no longer let foreigners into Giza, France no longer let foreigners visit the Louvre and Australia no longer let foreigners visit the Great Barrier Reef.

You already have to show your card at most NP to gain entry...particularly the busy ones. This past winter, we've had them check that it's signed and that it matches our ID. So yes, you have to show your papers.

Removing a 10th of the visitors at Glacier would likely have a big impact particularly since they are likely concentrated on the top attractions in the park, so it would have a disproportionate impact.

At Grand Canyon it's around 35% of visitors. 20% at Yosemite. There is room to scale back without eliminating entirely. Or do we push them to come in the off season. We hit 10 national parks over the past 6 months and other than Zion, there was no crowds.

No one is suggesting we don't allow them to visit but first priority would be for citizens. There's a difference between managing and outlawing.

PS: In many of the top European tourist cities, there is a problem. The tourists have displaced the locals. Go to Venice and its' a rarity to meet an actual Venetian. There are groups pushing to limit them. Without the locals, it may as well be a fake disney theme park. When we were in Egypt 2 years ago, the locals outnumbered foreign tourists 10 to 1 at Giza and the locals had ticket prices about 1/10th the price that we paid for entrance tickets. Your examples are on weak ground if we are to use foreign destinations as a comparison.

[FWC]

For context, those that enjoy the backcountry of the National Parks have dealt with limited numbers, permits and lotteries for a long time. Yes it can be disappointing when you can't get the backpacking, rafting, climbing or canyoneering trip on the day you wanted (or at all). But most agree that for the wilderness to remain wild, you need to manage the visitation and impact and can't have a free-for-all.

I personally would prefer to have a less frequent but experience-of-a-lifetime type experience in the wilderness than to be able to go whenever I want and have to play bumper boats on the Grand or race people for campsites on the Teton Crest Trail. Obviously visitation will be higher and the experience is less wild in the front country, but it still comes to the point where the crowding detracts from the experience for everyone.

One thing I do hope is that if/when they do go to reserved/permitted entry, that the commercial operators don't get to jump the queue. This is a huge issue with backcountry use, where a certain percentage of permitts are reserved for a small number of commercial operators, meaning they are not available to the general public.

[FWC]

valhalla360 wrote:

Other than this past year, which is an anomaly, many of the parks are heavily traveled by foreigners. Particularly they busiest parks.

Nothing xenophobic about it. As the owners, citizens should have first access if we need to reduce numbers as you suggest.

Will we have to show our papers to enter the parks?

Even before the pandemic, foreign visitors made up 9% of the visitation to Glacier, and only 6% of visitation to Zion, so restricting foreign visitation will not solve the issue.

I believe that sharing the worlds cultural and natural treasures brings people together. It would be really sad if Egypt decided to no longer let foreigners into Giza, France no longer let foreigners visit the Louvre and Australia no longer let foreigners visit the Great Barrier Reef.

[valhalla360]

FWC wrote:
Besides the obvious xenophobia, I am not sure how this would even address the issue. Over the last year there have been near zero foreign visitors, yet the crowds have been worse than ever.

bgum wrote:
I am sure that this will get a warm reception: It has been suggested that usa citizens or at least usa residents have unrestricted entry but noncitizens have ticketed entry.

Other than this past year, which is an anomaly, many of the parks are heavily traveled by foreigners. Particularly they busiest parks.

Nothing xenophobic about it. As the owners, citizens should have first access if we need to reduce numbers as you suggest.

[C_Schomer]

We used to go across the Royal Gorge bridge, go to RedRocks Park, go over Trail Ridge and anywhere else at anytime. Starting June 4, it will cost $25/day or $35/ week for RMNP but the senior pass still works so why is the extra charge necessary? I think it's our Q governor at work. He jacked up hunting fees as soon as he was in office. Craig

[JIMNLIN]

FWC wrote:
I am not sure the 'state of CO' has done anything to Royal Gorge Bridge - it is a privately owned tourist trap.

Exactly....its what the state didn't do in protecting a attraction like the Royal Gorge. Like I stated I'm glad to have seen it before.

[Thermoguy]

I think it is a good idea. We visited Glacier last summer. Basically drove over and back, no where to park...

I think we found 2 times where we could park but neither had hiking trails from that point so people only got out, took some pictures and drove off. Most of the roadside parking is full by early morning and you are lucky to get a spot. If you don't stick around, then you move on and might not find another place to park. We did decide we wanted to hike to a lake, so on our 3rd day, got up really early and went and found what seemed like the last spot. The trail was very overcrowded and we wore masks almost the entire hike due to people coming the other way the entire route.

We went to Zion this winter, the shuttle system isn't perfect, but you get a reservation, show up, get on a bus, get in the park, then it works great. We made 3 stops, hiked, enjoyed, then took the bus back to the main shuttle stop. I don't need to go back, but it was easy and didn't have to fight traffic the entire drive up and back.

Glacier was nice, but other areas of the country are just as nice and are not so crowded...