Help with Backing Up

[seagrace]

Sorry, apparently I'm not allowed to post relevant content.

[tatest]

Is it communication, or is it that she does not understand the dynamics of backing a trailer? If she is to be helpful, she needs to be as skillful with backing as you are, so it would be best for you to teach her how. Put her behind the wheel, you tell her what to do. Once she learns how to back a trailer, she could likely guide you in standing in front watching the space and the whole rig. But she can't guide you if she doesn't know how to do it.

[Rice]

toedtoes wrote:
The point is that the person behind the wheel IS responsible for everything that happens with the vehicle and trailer and therefore needs to be more than just a trained monkey following instructions.

The instructions dictate where to have the tires set before moving, so it's one person who is responsible for the trajectory the RV takes, instead of two. Once the tires are set and the RV starts moving, the person directing is doing the same thing as any other spotter--looking for obstacles and telling the driver when to stop.

Of course the driver should look around for obstacles, and stop if something looks amiss. Just don't decide on your own to turn the wheel. If you think you're heading wrong, then stop and discuss. Don't mess up the direction-giver's plan by going off script, and everything should be perfect...if the direction-giver knows what he's doing.

[toedtoes]

Veebyes wrote:

toedtoes wrote:

Veebyes wrote:
JMO but it is not the spotters job to tell the driver how to drive the vehicle. It is the spotters job to tell the driver which way & how much she wants the back of the vehicle to go. Making the back follow her instructions is the drivers problem. A good spotter helps by being able to anticipate what needs to happen before it needs to happen, given that 5ers are a little slow to respond.

I agree.

If I am in the driver seat, it is MY responsibility to know what I am doing. If the trailer hits a kid on a bicycle, the driver can't say "well my spotter is the expert and so I just did what he/she told me to do" and walk away. The driver is responsible and as such should be knowledgeable in backing up and be paying attention to more going on than just the spotter's instructions.

Good point because so often you have to deal with kids riding around on bikes in your site as you try to back in. That or they are ridinging around the CG & are totally unfamiliar with a RV backing into a site having never seen one before & have no idea how big it is.

You do realize my comment about the kid on a bicycle was just one of many many things that could happen while backing up, right?

The point is that the person behind the wheel IS responsible for everything that happens with the vehicle and trailer and therefore needs to be more than just a trained monkey following instructions.

[Veebyes]

toedtoes wrote:

Veebyes wrote:
JMO but it is not the spotters job to tell the driver how to drive the vehicle. It is the spotters job to tell the driver which way & how much she wants the back of the vehicle to go. Making the back follow her instructions is the drivers problem. A good spotter helps by being able to anticipate what needs to happen before it needs to happen, given that 5ers are a little slow to respond.

I agree.

If I am in the driver seat, it is MY responsibility to know what I am doing. If the trailer hits a kid on a bicycle, the driver can't say "well my spotter is the expert and so I just did what he/she told me to do" and walk away. The driver is responsible and as such should be knowledgeable in backing up and be paying attention to more going on than just the spotter's instructions.

Good point because so often you have to deal with kids riding around on bikes in your site as you try to back in. That or they are ridinging around the CG & are totally unfamiliar with a RV backing into a site having never seen one before & have no idea how big it is.

[toedtoes]

dieseltruckdriver wrote:

seagrace wrote:
"I agree with both of Gdetrailers posts completely. You really do need more practice, and she should try backing up also. I am not being condescending, so please don't take me wrong. With practice you both will get much more comfortable. The camp site isn't the place to practice though."

Some of these posts make me sorry I asked. I'm thinking for some of you, English must not be your first language.

I know how to back a trailer, okay? And no, I'm not being "condescending".

I am going to respond even though my intuition is not to, since it was me you quoted and said "English must not be your first language."

If you have your wife try and back up, it will giver her a better understanding of what you need to know when you are trying to back up.

Of course, that is if you can give up just a little bit of control, and help her learn. After that post, I am starting to see why you might be having problems, and yes you were being extremely condescending.

I hope you get it figured out, but I am done on this post.

I think the "practice backing up" is about two things:

Having the OP's wife practice backing up so she can see why a spotter is needed and how the spotter helps.

Having the OP practice backing up with the wife spotting to help her practice her role and for them both to develop clear communication skills.

I don't think it's a "the OP doesn't know how to back up" comment.

[toedtoes]

Veebyes wrote:
JMO but it is not the spotters job to tell the driver how to drive the vehicle. It is the spotters job to tell the driver which way & how much she wants the back of the vehicle to go. Making the back follow her instructions is the drivers problem. A good spotter helps by being able to anticipate what needs to happen before it needs to happen, given that 5ers are a little slow to respond.

I agree.

If I am in the driver seat, it is MY responsibility to know what I am doing. If the trailer hits a kid on a bicycle, the driver can't say "well my spotter is the expert and so I just did what he/she told me to do" and walk away. The driver is responsible and as such should be knowledgeable in backing up and be paying attention to more going on than just the spotter's instructions.

[seagrace]

Yeah, it kinda stings when people are being condescending, eh?

[dieseltruckdriv]

seagrace wrote:
"I agree with both of Gdetrailers posts completely. You really do need more practice, and she should try backing up also. I am not being condescending, so please don't take me wrong. With practice you both will get much more comfortable. The camp site isn't the place to practice though."

Some of these posts make me sorry I asked. I'm thinking for some of you, English must not be your first language.

I know how to back a trailer, okay? And no, I'm not being "condescending".

I am going to respond even though my intuition is not to, since it was me you quoted and said "English must not be your first language."

If you have your wife try and back up, it will giver her a better understanding of what you need to know when you are trying to back up.

Of course, that is if you can give up just a little bit of control, and help her learn. After that post, I am starting to see why you might be having problems, and yes you were being extremely condescending.

I hope you get it figured out, but I am done on this post.

[Veebyes]

JMO but it is not the spotters job to tell the driver how to drive the vehicle. It is the spotters job to tell the driver which way & how much she wants the back of the vehicle to go. Making the back follow her instructions is the drivers problem. A good spotter helps by being able to anticipate what needs to happen before it needs to happen, given that 5ers are a little slow to respond.

[wnjj]

toedtoes wrote:

Ron3rd wrote:
All good advice above but I will give you a tip for the spotter that helps us;

We got into this in 2004 and I asked questions on this very forum about backing up a travel trailer.

My wife is a very good spotter but she's been doing it for hundreds of trips. We communicate by cell phone (when we can) and instead of saying, "go Right" or "go Left", she will say "PASSENGER" and "DRIVER" SIDE.

In other words, she does not say, "turn to the right". She will say, "start turning to the PASSENGER SIDE".

The Driver Side/Passenger Side lingo that was recommended here was one of the best tips I ever got.

That is always good. Then you don't fall into the "your left or my left" dilemma.

I also want to know from the start if you are telling me to turn the steering wheel OR the trailer - I've had people do both without identifying which they mean and it gets very annoying.

That's why we use "cut" and "follow/straighten out" to describe the way the TV influences the trailer instead of directions or even sides. Of course this assumes there's already a turn in progress. If you're going straight back and need to start a "cut" you need to say which way. 😉

[toedtoes]

Ron3rd wrote:
All good advice above but I will give you a tip for the spotter that helps us;

We got into this in 2004 and I asked questions on this very forum about backing up a travel trailer.

My wife is a very good spotter but she's been doing it for hundreds of trips. We communicate by cell phone (when we can) and instead of saying, "go Right" or "go Left", she will say "PASSENGER" and "DRIVER" SIDE.

In other words, she does not say, "turn to the right". She will say, "start turning to the PASSENGER SIDE".

The Driver Side/Passenger Side lingo that was recommended here was one of the best tips I ever got.

That is always good. Then you don't fall into the "your left or my left" dilemma.

I also want to know from the start if you are telling me to turn the steering wheel OR the trailer - I've had people do both without identifying which they mean and it gets very annoying.

[toedtoes]

Rice - maybe it's just the wording you're using rather than your concept. I just find it very insulting to have someone treating me like a trained monkey rather than an intelligent human. I would rather learn how to back up and/or spot(when to turn and why, etc.) than just be given directions and a "just do as you're told and don't think". I find that makes for a much more satisfactory ending. And it means I learn how to back-up/spot and can do it properly at another time. It also means I can more easily spot an idiot who doesn't know what he/she is doing BEFORE I start doing what he/she says.

Fortunately my dad was good about teaching me how to do things and explaining why I should do it that way - it made me a far more independent and capable adult.

[Ron3rd]

All good advice above but I will give you a tip for the spotter that helps us;

We got into this in 2004 and I asked questions on this very forum about backing up a travel trailer.

My wife is a very good spotter but she's been doing it for hundreds of trips. We communicate by cell phone (when we can) and instead of saying, "go Right" or "go Left", she will say "PASSENGER" and "DRIVER" SIDE.

In other words, she does not say, "turn to the right". She will say, "start turning to the PASSENGER SIDE".

The Driver Side/Passenger Side lingo that was recommended here was one of the best tips I ever got.

[Rice]

toedtoes wrote:
If someone believes that he is so knowledgeable that he can get the job done using a monkey - then have at it. Just don't expect other people to choose to "be your monkey".

I look at it from a different angle. Ask someone to be your monkey, to test whether you really know what you're doing.

It's a no-lose proposition for the monkey: either the expert really is an expert and the most efficient way to get the RV backed in is to follow his directions to the letter--yay! Problem solved! Or the expert makes a mess of it and the problem is identified and can be worked on, and it's obviously not the monkey's fault.

Surely we've all had the experience or seen where two people were "helping" guide an RV in--usually bystanders. That is never helpful, yet I think that is what is actually going on when you have a person driving and a person outside directing: two people making decisions on what the trajectory of the RV should be, with a resulting mish-mash of trajectories because sometimes the driver does what he thinks he should and sometimes he's following the spotter's directions.

One person needs to be making the decisions--preferably the one with more expertise.

[toedtoes]

Even "experts" make mistakes and "amateurs" often come up with new and more effective ways of doing things.

If someone believes that he is so knowledgeable that he can get the job done using a monkey - then have at it. Just don't expect other people to choose to "be your monkey".

Better to teach a man to fish...