Major Sway Problems! Any ideas!?

[svt440]

Hey everyone, I'm new here! Hope you all had a nice weekend. I just got back from a 6 hour drive to Lake Cumberland, and ran into some pretty sketchy situations while driving.

I have a 6,100lb travel trailer (Keystone Sprinter) that is 25' in length. Trailer was dry with the exception of some clothing and food/drinks. When it was all loaded up, it was easily less than 7,000lbs.

My truck is a 2003 Silverado 2500HD with the 6.6l Duramax. Short bed, extended cab, and has a tow capacity of 12,000lbs. I also am equipped with the "Curt TruTrack Weight Distribution System w/ Sway Control - Trunnion - 10,000 lbs GTW, 1,000 lbs TW".

With this setup, I wouldn't expect many problems with sway, but the moment I drove any faster than 65mph, it got a little out of hand.

On the way down I almost put the truck in the median of the free way because it got to swaying and I almost didn't hold on to it. I just had new E-Rated tires put on and noticed a lot of sidewall roll when the truck was pushed side to side, so I stopped on my way to Cumberland and had all brand new tires put on, (BF Goodrich, also an E-Rated tire), and they have 3ply sidewalls rather than 2-ply. This helped a little, (maybe gained 5mph without sway), and allowed me to run right at 64-65mph and would then sway as I got closer to 70mph. I got my doors blown off my travel trailers all day today. One was even a half ton pulling a 29' travel trailer that put the hurts on me!

I then noticed it didn't sway hardly at all at 65-68mph with less fuel, and as soon as a put a full tank in it, it was a little more sketchy. But even at that rate you're talking a few hundred pounds on a truck thats 5,000+ lbs below its rated tow capacity. I'm not even close to the limit and it is scary to drive! Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance everyone!!

[myredracer]

keymastr wrote:
Rear kitchen models always have tongue weight issues. Maybe you could pack your food and gear up front and move them to the kitchen after you arrive.

Sorry, but that's an urban myth. We have a rear kitchen and fully loaded up, our tongue weight is around 14.5 percent.

I've never heard of anyone having to load the front of a TT with sand bags to raise tongue weight. How were the 6660 & 500 lb numbers obtained?

[keymastr]

Rear kitchen models always have tongue weight issues. Maybe you could pack your food and gear up front and move them to the kitchen after you arrive.

[mkirsch]

Yeah, are the 200lbs of bikes still on the back of the trailer?

[Adam_H]

You might not need as many sand bags if you put a front hitch on your truck with the bikes up there. Or get a Toprails system and mount to the tongue.

Adam

[Durb]

Do you have air bags? I've seen the scenario more than once ( especially with on board compressors) where the driver loads the weight distribution with the bags under low pressure. They then air up the bags to level the truck and go higher than the unloaded height. This has the effect of unloading your weight distribution bars. If your hitch has anti-sway incorporated with weight distribution then the anti-sway effectiveness goes away. It also stiffens the rear suspension creating a fulcrum which unloads the front tires. The trailer is now nose high and starts to sway, the driver freaks and adds more air to the air bags making things worse.

Your weight distribution system should bring your hitch up to 1" below your unloaded height. Your air bags should be deployed to raise the truck to unloaded height only.

I was following my son and his trailer was dancing all over the place. I called him over to the side of the road where we unloaded the air bags and increased his WD springs by a link. Completely different tow. Many think air bags are a panacea, they aren't.

[TucsonJim]

svt440 wrote:
Got some weights today. Trailer is 6,660lbs, and the tongue weight (at the jack) is 500lbs. Now I know at the jack isnt exactly what the tongue weight is, because I think the farther ahead you get from the axles the heavier it'll be, but its within three inches from the ball which is close enough to tell I'm really far off. Purchased a few hundred pounds of sand bags today and am going to put them under the queen bed in the front. There is a big space there we never use. I'll do this one bag at a time while sitting on the scales to get the tongue weight I'm after. Does 13% sound ideal?

I think you'll be right on the money at 13%. I'm glad you got the weights. 7.5% is not nearly enough and explains your bad sway problem.

[svt440]

Got some weights today. Trailer is 6,660lbs, and the tongue weight (at the jack) is 500lbs. Now I know at the jack isnt exactly what the tongue weight is, because I think the farther ahead you get from the axles the heavier it'll be, but its within three inches from the ball which is close enough to tell I'm really far off. Purchased a few hundred pounds of sand bags today and am going to put them under the queen bed in the front. There is a big space there we never use. I'll do this one bag at a time while sitting on the scales to get the tongue weight I'm after. Does 13% sound ideal?

[blt2ski]

Selling current RK model for an FK model travel trailer may also help in this situation. If you have 5 people in your truck, you already have lost potentially 1/2 of your payload. Yes, I would agree that you are probably closer to 2300-2600 lbs of actual payload. My family of 6 was closer to 1200 when my kids were adult sized teens. I pulled a 24' FK trailer all around the US and mostly NW US, in winter with snow and ice on the road to ski areas, upwards of 50-60 mph cross winds across bridges over the columbia river. NO SWAY. Then again, a noted, I had 13-15% HW. This is with no WD, wd and later a dual cam. Yes I did notice some difference with no bars, vs WD vs a dual cam. Dual cam being the best setup. BUT< I still would have no qualms about towing barless!

Your trailer has some issues that need to get solved first. not so sure a 5w is absolute best option.

Marty

[Skidus1]

Funny reading about the tires and speed. Wife an I went out for Memorial Day weekend and was passed on the freeway by a truck and bumper pull trailer pulling a flatbed with bikes on it and for 2 miles after all we could smell was burning rubber. We were at 65 as I am aware of tire ratings, he was at least 70 plus mph when he went by.

[hawkeye-08]

Instead of loading the cabinets, for a temporary fix, perhaps putting all the kitchen items (food, dishes, pots and pans, etc) away, put them in some totes as far forward as you can inside the trailer. If you carry a toolbox in your truck, consider moving it inside the trailer near the front to add even more weight. See if that fixes your sway issues while you are shopping for your 5th wheel trailer. Please be careful, sway can cause you to have to change your pants.

Also make sure your trailer is not nose high when all set to leave.

[svt440]

badercubed wrote:

svt440 wrote:

cruz-in wrote:
With a 250/2500 series truck, due to limited truck payload, there are very few 5th wheels that will not have you excceding the payload of the truck...perhaps/probably by a lots...

As a fellow owner of a 250/2500 series truck, kinda a bummer but these trucks are limited on payload.

True, but the dry weight of the one I'm looking at is 7,610lbs with a hitch weight of 1400. Its a relatively small fifth wheel with one slide out. Looks like the payload of the 2500HD is somewhere near 3,437lbs. I'd think I'd be okay? I'm not going to ever travel with much more than a few hundred pounds of extra stuff. Maybe I'm over looking something.

Where did you get the payload number? I could be wrong, but that seems like a lot available for a shortbed extended cab diesel. I would have thought you'd be more in the 2400lb range.

I got it online. I searched for my truck and that came up. I see what you're saying though. I will look at the sticker on the truck when I get home from work. I was a bit ignorant with my statement.

[svt440]

mkirsch wrote:

svt440 wrote:
I'm ready to pull the trigger on one as soon as I can sell mine. Made the ad this morning. I'd like to cover some serious mileage and I don't care to do it with a trailer that wants to sway at 60mph. I've already got my new one picked out. I think tongue weight is the issue. I wasn't aware that it needed to be closer to 15 percent. Mine is 10 percent when the camper is dry, and thats before I load the cabinets in the kitchen full of food and drinks etc. Not to mention I had over 200lbs of bicycles on the back of the camper. I've learned a lot in this thread, and I appreciate all the advice. I will own this trailer for a bit longer, as its not going to be easy to sell a 2005 imo. I will load the tongue heavy and give it a try here soon just for my curiosity. Thanks again!

Did you mention the bikes earlier? I don't think you did.

Unless you include ALL the details, we can't help but be IGNORANT (i.e. lacking knowledge)!

If you started with a 10 percent tongue weight, then loaded everything into the rear kitchen, AND added 200lbs of bikes to the back, it's no wonder you had sway!

Here we are chasing down this grand mystery, and come to find out you were stacking the deck against yourself from the get-go...

15 percent tongue weight isn't necessary, it's just the upper end of the range of what's practical. Some trailers will tow fine at 10 percent, most end up at 12-13 percent.

Probably just moving the bikes will be enough to straighten things out.

I wish moving the bikes would help. The only ignorance I was calling out was somebody telling me that changing tires was a silly thing to do. They actually magnified the issue because the truck had zero stability with those lousy tires. I put BF's on with a 3ply sidewall, and it helped control the issue a LOT. But the issue still exists. I've commented a couple of times in this thread saying and appreciating the input, because I've learned that the tongue weight is most likely the issue here. That being said, yes, I also had a couple hundred pounds of bikes hanging off the rear of the trailer making matters worse.. for 9 miles that is. 9 miles into the trip I took the bikes off the rear of the camper and put them in the bed of the truck because it swayed so much it nearly trashed my bike rack. Moving them to the bed didn't help the sway issue at all, and one of my most nerve-racking experiences happened after I removed the bikes from the rear of the camper, but before I changed the tires. In the first 60 miles I had three scary experiences, two of these with the bikes in the bed of the truck. At the 60 mile point I changed the tires, and had zero nerve-racking experiences for the next 250 miles, OR the 310 miles coming back home. However the sway still existed, and sometimes at even less than 60mph. SO in conclusion the tires helped. The truck could barely stand on its feet when a guy rocked it side to side until the new tires where installed. The sway still exists, PROBABLY due to MY ignorance of tongue weight. I'm sure it was probably more like 7% when I stocked my kitchen and my fridge for enough food and drinks for 5 people for 4 days.

[mkirsch]

svt440 wrote:
I'm ready to pull the trigger on one as soon as I can sell mine. Made the ad this morning. I'd like to cover some serious mileage and I don't care to do it with a trailer that wants to sway at 60mph. I've already got my new one picked out. I think tongue weight is the issue. I wasn't aware that it needed to be closer to 15 percent. Mine is 10 percent when the camper is dry, and thats before I load the cabinets in the kitchen full of food and drinks etc. Not to mention I had over 200lbs of bicycles on the back of the camper. I've learned a lot in this thread, and I appreciate all the advice. I will own this trailer for a bit longer, as its not going to be easy to sell a 2005 imo. I will load the tongue heavy and give it a try here soon just for my curiosity. Thanks again!

Did you mention the bikes earlier? I don't think you did.

Unless you include ALL the details, we can't help but be IGNORANT (i.e. lacking knowledge)!

If you started with a 10 percent tongue weight, then loaded everything into the rear kitchen, AND added 200lbs of bikes to the back, it's no wonder you had sway!

Here we are chasing down this grand mystery, and come to find out you were stacking the deck against yourself from the get-go...

15 percent tongue weight isn't necessary, it's just the upper end of the range of what's practical. Some trailers will tow fine at 10 percent, most end up at 12-13 percent.

Probably just moving the bikes will be enough to straighten things out.

[cruz-in]

Wow that is a great payload rating for a 2500HD truck...my F250 with a 9800 pound GVWR only has a cargo capacity of 2300 pounds....

Did you get the 3437 payload rating from the door sticker for yoour truck?

If your paylaod for your particular truck is 3437 yoou will be fine with that 5er.

I keep stressing "your particular truck" because the ford website lists a similar paylaod for my f250, however that is for a stripped down truck. Each item that is added above a stripped 2 door truck gas engine truck subtracts from the payload. Crew Cab, Deisel, 4WD, etc. all reduce that magical maximum payload capacity listed on the weebsite. Only way to know for sure is to check the door sticker on your truck.