My dad thought he was a goner

[Kennedy64]

My 72 YO dad, retired trucker, not afraid to tow anything, has a early to mid 2000 Cedar Creek, 26-28 ft long. When he bought it, he also got the "chain" type WDH. He has always hated it, doesn't eliminate a lot of sway. After talking to several salesmen (thinking of buying a smaller TT), the neighbor and myself (from reading this forum), he decided to buy a WDH similar to the Equa-l-izer hitch.
Him and the neighbor who also is a retired trucker and now professionally hauls trailers all over the US and Canada, hooked up the hitch and off dad went for a test drive. Not knowing, I called him a couple of miles from home and immediately got a ear full. At first I thought he was calling my mom a B*&^% because it sounds a lot like hitch when he was yelling, thought the old man finally lost his marbles!! He said "I thought I was going to die, that trailer had so much sway on the expressway, I thought for sure I was going to end up in the ditch with the truck and trailer on the roof" Good Lord, my dad never gets scared driving.
After he got home, him and the neighbor made adjustments 3x's with a ride after each. Dad said the sway was slightly better but he would never attempt the e-way again. In fact, he is thinking of selling the whole thing and being done with it. Which can't happen cuz I am looking forward to camping with them this summer. We brainstormed, tires at max PSI, Yes, TT tires at max PSI, Yes. WDH hooked up correctly, Yes. My husband asked about the tongue height but I haven't heard back. I think maybe broken belt in the TT tires, neighbor thinks rear tires on his TV. It was also windy here yesterday. Dad thinks his TV is to small. I told him to take it to his local RV dealer today for an inspection.
Dad's TV is a '12 Chevy Silverado, 1/2 ton, 2WD, bought all set up for towing.
Do any of you have any suggestions for me to throw out to him? Don't want the old coot to stop just yet!!!

[BenK]

It is NOT any one thing, but one thing can push it over the line...

Tongue weight, yes should be in the +12% to 15% range. I like more, but it is
up to the TV's rear suspension GAWR

Trailer orientation. It should be level at it's highest pointing and I like pointing
slightly down

Enough weight transferred from the TV rear suspension over to the TV front suspension.
How much? Depends these days and different from OEM to OEM. Used to be even drop
front/rear of the TV, but no more

Ratings...the biggie for me. Is it rated for that trailer. TRUE ratings, not the
marketing ratings, which is derived from a 'curb' or 'stripper' TV

Components, albeit that is basic for the class of TV. Half Tons has "P" rated
tires (passenger, or car tires). Higher class has "LT" rated tires (light
truck tires)

Brake controller...I like inertia based and a good/proper TV brake pedal light
switch that leads TV MC PSI generation

There are more...

All matters and any one can cause problems...

[131will]

Tongue weight tongue weight tongue weight. I believe proper tongue weight is 90% of peoples problems with sway. Our last TT only weighed around 5500 pounds loaded and pulled with my Ford 150, but I could tell if we didn't load it properly. With the sway control about as tight as I could get it, we would still get sway at highway speeds if we didn't have anything piled on the couch (it was in the very front). Once I figured it out, the last few times I towed it, I didn't even mess with putting on the sway control. We just made sure that our suitcases, and outside chairs and stuff was on the couch. We also put out coolers all the way up front on the floor. That tool care of everything.

I pulled a 5 X 10 utility trailer with 3 ricks of firewood on it and 1 rick in the bed of the same truck. I got up to about 50 mph on the interstate, and thought we were going to die! I pulled over and loaded up the front of the trailer (it was a tilt trailer so it didn't have much tongue weight anyway) and went the rest of the way home without problem.

My point is, size and weight has little to do with it. It is about having enough tongue weight (I like more than normally required), to force the trailer to follow the truck instead of jerk it around.

Put a fridge, stove, or something like it on a 2 wheel dolly. Pull back on the dolly just enough for the load to be balanced, then take off running out the driveway and try to control it. Then, after you get the fridge back up on the dolly and got bandaids on your scratches, pull the dolly with a lot of weight on the handle and see how much better it is to control. Tongue weight is everything.

[Krease]

BadDogPSD wrote:


Aren't you supposed to inflate your tires based on the load?

I don't, but then again I have at minimum a 6300lb trailer hooked up for 95% of my miles, gross up to 26k for most miles. My E rated tires are max psi 80, but I run them 65 front, 60 rear like the door jamb says. 80k miles on the rears and they're perfectly flat across, 50k on the fronts and they're both wearing equally as well. But I have a dually, not a Chevy 1500 like the OP is having issues with.

[BadDogPSD]

Krease wrote:
I agree with everyone on the tongue weight.

But one thing to think about... You said TV tires were at MAX psi. Why? set it to what the door jamb says, not the tire. Too much air in the tires will make it float a lot on the road.

Aren't you supposed to inflate your tires based on the load?

[jerem0621]

Krease wrote:
I agree with everyone on the tongue weight.

But one thing to think about... You said TV tires were at MAX psi. Why? set it to what the door jamb says, not the tire. Too much air in the tires will make it float a lot on the road.

The Max PSI recommendation, mine included, usually come with the TV that's running "P" rated tires. These tires are squishy and airing them up to Max PSI takes out a lot of sidewall flex and gives a much better tow...a P rated tire on a vehicle towing can feel very loosy goosed at 36 psi!!

Thanks!

Jeremiah

LT tires (like on your truck) are much stiffer

[Krease]

I agree with everyone on the tongue weight.

But one thing to think about... You said TV tires were at MAX psi. Why? set it to what the door jamb says, not the tire. Too much air in the tires will make it float a lot on the road.

[myredracer]

I think this is where posting a couple of pics would help. One close up of hitch and one of truck and trailer together to see how they sit.

Many variables and possibilities but it does sound like not enough weight transferred back onto steer axle. With little weight transferred back up front, it would be scary at speed on an e-way (learned a new word today). If you haven't, measure the before and after front fender heights.

[mich800]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

campigloo wrote:
All of this tongue weight talk is certainly a part of it. The OP mentioned it being a windy day. It doesn't matter how well set up the rig is, how perfectly the weights are distributed, how well it tracks or anything else; if everything is absolutely perfect a TT will sway in the wind without some kind of sway control devce

Sway and wind buffet are two TOTALLY different things. I've towed lots of trailers in different conditions and one things for sure: I can tow on a windy day with no sway control with lots of tongue weight and be fine. I can tow on a windy day with sway control and very little tongue weight and it will be a nightmare.

I agree. I have towed in some heavy winds. Yes, the combo gets moved around but it is not sway.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

campigloo wrote:
All of this tongue weight talk is certainly a part of it. The OP mentioned it being a windy day. It doesn't matter how well set up the rig is, how perfectly the weights are distributed, how well it tracks or anything else; if everything is absolutely perfect a TT will sway in the wind without some kind of sway control devce

Sway and wind buffet are two TOTALLY different things. I've towed lots of trailers in different conditions and one things for sure: I can tow on a windy day with no sway control with lots of tongue weight and be fine. I can tow on a windy day with sway control and very little tongue weight and it will be a nightmare.

[campigloo]

All of this tongue weight talk is certainly a part of it. The OP mentioned it being a windy day. It doesn't matter how well set up the rig is, how perfectly the weights are distributed, how well it tracks or anything else; if everything is absolutely perfect a TT will sway in the wind without some kind of sway control devce

[Terryallan]

DavidP wrote:

Terryallan wrote:

DavidP wrote:

Terryallan wrote:

DavidP wrote:
Could be too many things to list but I would look first at trailer suspension as well as not enough tongue weight. A trailer should not sway even if there is NO WDH installed. A properly installed WDH with sway control helps prevent sway from occurring and control it if it does. Adjusting the WDH to deal with sway is just masking a problem. I would look at those two things and go from there.

Actually a properly setup WDH returns steering control to the driver. It may not technically be sway. But a light front axle will make the driver lose control because of the light steering. Returning steering control by replacing lost weight to the front axle will in most cases eliminate the feeling of sway. That is what a WDH does. It does not prevent sway. But eliminates the main cause.

I know what a properly installed WDH does and the importance of it. My point is a properly loaded trailer should not sway with or without a WDH in place. A WDH does not eliminate the main cause of sway and will only mask the real problem which is exactly what I said in my original post. He needs to find out why the trailer is swaying, fix that while at the same time properly set up the hitch.

so you are saying. that having the steering axle completely unloaded has nothing to do with it????
Wrong

Get the hitch right, return steering control, and 95% of TTs will have no sway.

No, that is not what I'm saying. I agree, having the proper amount of weight distributed to the front axles is certainly part of the equation but I was discussing TONGUE WEIGHT ONLY. My singular point again is if a trailer is swaying from a light tongue adjusting the WDH to control that is not a proper fix and it is masking the real issue. There should be at least 13% of the total trailer weight on the tongue. As stated in my original post I said the OP’s sway might be from not enough tongue weight. Your example of an unloaded front axle is a WDH issue and I agree it may have "sway" charteristics and can be remedied from proper weight on the axle but has nothing to do with a light tongue. We are addressing two different points. I did not go into WDH set up since the OP claimed they adjusted and readjusted the WDH. Certainly that could have been done improperly but as I originally stated to the OP there are too many variables and focused on tongue weight. As I stated before you certainly brought up another variable he may be experiencing.

I think we agree. A properly loaded, and setup TT should not sway in normal driving. Once you get the TT right, and the hitch right, and then if you still have sway. Look elsewhere for it. However a properly loaded TT will sway if the TV is nose light. And a of course sway control will NEVER fix it. And that is not what sway control is for. Never use it to keep the TT under control.

We prolly on the same page, best I can tell

[DavidP]

Terryallan wrote:

DavidP wrote:

Terryallan wrote:

DavidP wrote:
Could be too many things to list but I would look first at trailer suspension as well as not enough tongue weight. A trailer should not sway even if there is NO WDH installed. A properly installed WDH with sway control helps prevent sway from occurring and control it if it does. Adjusting the WDH to deal with sway is just masking a problem. I would look at those two things and go from there.

Actually a properly setup WDH returns steering control to the driver. It may not technically be sway. But a light front axle will make the driver lose control because of the light steering. Returning steering control by replacing lost weight to the front axle will in most cases eliminate the feeling of sway. That is what a WDH does. It does not prevent sway. But eliminates the main cause.

I know what a properly installed WDH does and the importance of it. My point is a properly loaded trailer should not sway with or without a WDH in place. A WDH does not eliminate the main cause of sway and will only mask the real problem which is exactly what I said in my original post. He needs to find out why the trailer is swaying, fix that while at the same time properly set up the hitch.

so you are saying. that having the steering axle completely unloaded has nothing to do with it????
Wrong

Get the hitch right, return steering control, and 95% of TTs will have no sway.

No, that is not what I'm saying. I agree, having the proper amount of weight distributed to the front axles is certainly part of the equation but I was discussing TONGUE WEIGHT ONLY. My singular point again is if a trailer is swaying from a light tongue adjusting the WDH to control that is not a proper fix and it is masking the real issue. There should be at least 13% of the total trailer weight on the tongue. As stated in my original post I said the OP’s sway might be from not enough tongue weight. Your example of an unloaded front axle is a WDH issue and I agree it may have "sway" charteristics and can be remedied from proper weight on the axle but has nothing to do with a light tongue. We are addressing two different points. I did not go into WDH set up since the OP claimed they adjusted and readjusted the WDH. Certainly that could have been done improperly but as I originally stated to the OP there are too many variables and focused on tongue weight. As I stated before you certainly brought up another variable he may be experiencing.

[mowermech]

WyoTraveler wrote:

mowermech wrote:

WyoTraveler wrote:
In 1996 I drove into an RV dealer in southern CA and said I was interested in buying a small TT. The salesman asked me "is that your 1/2 ton PU"? I Told him yes but was interested in the 16 ft TT in the lot. The salesman responded "I don't have anything in the lot that your 1/2 PU can safely tow". Times have changed. They are so desperate for sales they would have sold me a 40' TT and wished me well.

That salesman was, IMO, a fool. You would have been fine towing a 16 foot TT with a half ton pickup. I base that statement on personal experience, having towed a 16 foot camp trailer from Greybull, WY to Tucson and back with a Ford E150 Club Wagon, using a standard receiver hitch with no WDH or "sway control". We frequently took it to Medicine Lodge Campground, as well.
In fact, I towed a 19 ft. TT with that same Club Wagon from Great Falls, MT to Wood Lake Campground in the mountains above Augusta, MT. However, when I towed the 19 foot trailer with the Jeep Wagoneer, a WDH was an absolute necessity, to level the Wagoneer. No sway control was used, though. Our favorite trip with that rig was across Roger's Pass to Copper Creek Campground near Lincoln, MT.

It bears repeating: A properly built, properly loaded trailer, being towed by the proper vehicle, using the proper tires, WILL...NOT...SWAY!
If it does, something is WRONG! DO NOT attempt to "fix" it using some gadget to dampen the sway. FIND the problem, and FIX IT!
Do this for YOUR safety, and the safety of others.

Yup, thats the old days. Being a fool for having ethics. Today is a different world. Absolutely no ethics.

Sorry, no, I won't allow you to twist it to fit your agenda!

"The salesman asked me "is that your 1/2 ton PU"? I Told him yes but was interested in the 16 ft TT in the lot. The salesman responded "I don't have anything in the lot that your 1/2 PU can safely tow."

THAT statement, IMO, is what makes the salesman a fool, based purely on personal experience as previously related. There have been a lot of others who have safely towed TT's of 20 foot length or less with half ton pickups, vans, and even full sized sedans and station wagons. Such towing is NOT unsafe! The salesman was a fool, IMO, for making such a statement, and for apparently believing that it is true. His "ethics" (assuming he really has any, which we don't really know) have nothing to do with his foolishness! the only way he could KNOW that your truck could not tow the trailer you were interested in would have been to look at the numbers. He didn't do that, did he? Another fine example of foolishness. ETHICALLY he should have checked the numbers, THEN said "No, sorry, that trailer is too heavy for your truck!"

[Kennedy64]

smkettner wrote:

Kennedy64 wrote:
Dad said the sway was slightly better but he would never attempt the e-way again.

e-way? This hitch? http://www.fastwaytrailer.com/shop/e2-hitch/

Looks weak to me. Or something else?

Or was that short for 'easy way' as in some short cut?

Sorry, with e-way, I meant expressway