New fifth wheel. Questions

[2001400ex]

So I just picked up my fifth wheel today and drove it way too many miles home. Yesterday they installed a B&W turnaround ball, Firestone airbags, and the Anderson ultimate hitch. The fifth wheel is a stealth 2816 (32 foot). So I was agitated because yesterday they didn't install the chains or the plug in the bed. So I had to stay the night in hotel (I brought extra clothes, thankfully). This morning, they do the plug but say that since I don't have the puck system, the B&W turnaround ball they installed doesn't have anything to anchor to. I look it up online and the ones I'm looking at all have 2 u bolts, I tell him they installed the wrong one.

Anyway, we get over that and I come outside and my pickup is already hooked up. The trailer looks a little nose high, but it wasn't on level ground so I figured they did it right. I stop at a rest area a while later and get to looking at it. Like WTF?



So I'm driving along, talk to my brother. I decide to check the air bags when I get to the next gas station. I look at them and see this on the left side. Again, WTF?





I'm surprised it didn't pop given how much it was digging into the side. So I check the pressure, one was 75, other was 70. Reduced them both to 50 and it was more level. Tomorrow I am going to take it to a local shop to see if they can fix the bags. I also was looking at how they installed the red part on the pin box, here it is.



Here are my questions.

1) Did they install the wrong B&W turnaround ball? (Please no discussion on chain requirements, I have read about 20 of those threads) I have the chains just no where to hook them to.

2) Is the part attached to the pin box backwards or it is the right direction? It looks like it would move the trailer 4 or 5 inches further back if turned around. I backed into the driveway and got to about 45 degree angle and it didn't hit the cab. But I wonder if I have enough clearance for everything I need to do.

3) The tires are 235/80/16 10 ply load range E and are marked for 80 PSI. I had him check before we left and they all were at the 60 PSI. He said that's where it should be. I'm like, man shouldn't they be closer to 80 or at 80? He says no, he worked at a tire shop for 13 years, if you put them at 80, they will blow. What do you run your tires at for cold PSI?

4) Even dropping the pressure in the air bags, it was still above level. I was going to drop the ball one hole on the Anderson hitch. I have plenty of clearance, do you think that is the right adjustment to make? And I need about 6 inches of clearance, right?

Please let me know your thoughts.

BTW.....I was surprised that my fuel mileage was similar to that of the Shockwave 21 bumper pull in my signature. That one was 5,224 dry, this one is 9,800 dry. I track every tank in an app and hand calculate, so I checked to the same trip I made last year (although last year I was mostly fully loaded and this trip I was plum empty).

[Bedlam]

Just to throw out a completely different way to tackle this: Are you attached to keeping a pickup bed? Going to a hauler bed or flat deck may cost the same as doing extensive modifications to your fiver yet keep the height and CG stock. You could sell off your stock bed to help defray the cost of this upgrade.

[IdaD]

Keep us posted, OP. My truck is taller than yours and I'm interested in that model, so I'd be interested in knowing what your solution ends up being. It's surprising that the trailer manufacturers haven't figured out that newer model trucks are so much taller than they used to be. I've got no lift and stock size tires but several people have asked me how much of a lift I've got after climbing up in my truck.

[2001400ex]

rjxj wrote:
It may not be you failing at technology, sometimes I have to keep posting and going back and doing it again as this site faults out or something. Your rig doesnt look real bad and 5 inches may be ok most of the time but it will be that one crazy entrance at a gas station or when you boondock and get off road when it will get you. I double tow and never would have thought that the bottom of my ball would have touched but it sure did. It looks like it may have only contacted the cement one time but it was severe. My rail clearance is almost 8 inches.

So lets just guesstimate that you need to come up 2 inches. If you add an inch back to the pin it will then be around 3 inches. It may not make you 100 % level but it would probably be close. I would pull the fw up onto some 2 x 8 or 2x10 lumber or whatever to see what it takes to actually level it. You will then have a number and then add what you want for more rail clearance. Sometimes the springs can be dropped in the hanger brackets or an aftermarket axle alignment kit can get you about 2 inches. You could also go to 16 inch tires for about 1/2 to 3/4 or even 1 inch of lift. Some people even add shims between the axle perch and the spring which I'm not crazy about but maybe a small amount along with other things. In more extreme cases they sometimes have subframes built and drop the shackles that way.

Again, first thing is drag it up on some lumber and you can also stand back and look at it and see if you can live with it as is or have a good idea of how much to add. Let me also ask you how your frame is constructed. Is it a solid type of "I" beam or is it three pieces welded to create an I beam?

As you do this stuff you will also make the bottom step taller and make the stabilizers reach farther to touch the ground. Welcome to the club 🙂

I have no idea if it's a solid I beam or 3 piece. I have the Arctic package and the picture I posted I'm guessing it's the best to see.

Thanks for the advice!!! I need to raise the ball one again. I liked into a friend's yard and they have an incline, my first attempt to pull in I almost hit the rail on the trailer, if I had moved forward it would have. Backed up and tried again at a different angle, at one spot I was 1/4 inch away before the rear tires started going up the hill. So I definitely need more clearance.

I'll go to the shop next week as I'm not a mechanic. I'll bring all your advice and see what they can do. I wish have 16 inch rims, they are 235/80/16. I can get 85 series tires to give me another inch. I might go that route as these are worthless tires.

[azrving]

This gives you 2 inches of lift. I will add that 16 inch tires may not give you much lift for the amount of money they cost but if you can do a combination of things to get you enough lift, 16's may be one of the things that using the money on also gives you a better chance of not having tire issues. It all sort of socks at this point and as I kept telling my son as we set up his FW....It always costs more. If you do have a welded 3 piece frame I'd back up and consider a sub frame. Dont do anything yet until you gather all your information.

[azrving]

It may not be you failing at technology, sometimes I have to keep posting and going back and doing it again as this site faults out or something. Your rig doesnt look real bad and 5 inches may be ok most of the time but it will be that one crazy entrance at a gas station or when you boondock and get off road when it will get you. I double tow and never would have thought that the bottom of my ball would have touched but it sure did. It looks like it may have only contacted the cement one time but it was severe. My rail clearance is almost 8 inches.

So lets just guesstimate that you need to come up 2 inches. If you add an inch back to the pin it will then be around 3 inches. It may not make you 100 % level but it would probably be close. I would pull the fw up onto some 2 x 8 or 2x10 lumber or whatever to see what it takes to actually level it. You will then have a number and then add what you want for more rail clearance. Sometimes the springs can be dropped in the hanger brackets or an aftermarket axle alignment kit can get you about 2 inches. You could also go to 16 inch tires for about 1/2 to 3/4 or even 1 inch of lift. Some people even add shims between the axle perch and the spring which I'm not crazy about but maybe a small amount along with other things. In more extreme cases they sometimes have subframes built and drop the shackles that way.

Again, first thing is drag it up on some lumber and you can also stand back and look at it and see if you can live with it as is or have a good idea of how much to add. Let me also ask you how your frame is constructed. Is it a solid type of "I" beam or is it three pieces welded to create an I beam?

As you do this stuff you will also make the bottom step taller and make the stabilizers reach farther to touch the ground. Welcome to the club 🙂

[2001400ex]

I lowered the ball on the Anderson one rung and lowered the air bags to about 40 psi and this is where I came out. I'll have to take it to a dealer and see what they can do. I only have 5 inches of clearance for the bed rails. The front of the camper is 28 inches from the ground, rear is about 23 inches. So still nose high.

[2001400ex]

I've tried to post like 3 times but I keep failing on technology. Luckily the shop was able to fix everything in the bags. They said it was off alignment and some wasn't installed in the right place. Then while under the, the mechanic saw a loose bolt on the B&W. They re torqued then all and said most were loose. Just crazy. I'm glad I made it home last night after that shoddy work.

Either way, now to figure out how to level it. Thanks for the responses.

[memtb]

Artum Snowbird wrote:
I question why you wanted air bags installed. I bet your 3/4 ton suspension was perfectly happy to connect to the pin weight without air bags. Take them off, the back of the truck will drop a couple of inches.

I had bags on my one ton and when they finally fell apart and I cut them out I could connect up to my boat trailer without putting a lift board under the front loading crank up wheel on the trailer.

Bags are generally used when carrying a heavy load, more like a camper than a light fifth wheel, and they are not designed to be pumped up and lift the camper up, they are designed to correct side to side sagging. Try dropping bag pressure down to 15 (or the minimum they are supposed to have), but even still you might have to remove them entirely. Certainly something is very wrong as the fifth wheel should ride level.

Artum Snowbird, I wish you to clarify for me...sometimes I'm a little slow. IMO, the bags are to level the truck!!! If the truck is leveled...and the camper is "still" nose high, then that needs to be addressed. I agree that their purpose is "not" to lift trailer to it's desired ride height, merely level the tow vehicle!

Also...many of todays trucks are sprung very soft,for ride comfort. The manufacturers seem to forget that "it's a truck, not a passenger car! Prior to my bag installation, when hooked to my camper... I could not use high beams. They were so high....you couldn't see in front of the truck.

[2001400ex]

Artum Snowbird wrote:
I question why you wanted air bags installed. I bet your 3/4 ton suspension was perfectly happy to connect to the pin weight without air bags. Take them off, the back of the truck will drop a couple of inches.

I had bags on my one ton and when they finally fell apart and I cut them out I could connect up to my boat trailer without putting a lift board under the front loading crank up wheel on the trailer.

Bags are generally used when carrying a heavy load, more like a camper than a light fifth wheel, and they are not designed to be pumped up and lift the camper up, they are designed to correct side to side sagging. Try dropping bag pressure down to 15 (or the minimum they are supposed to have), but even still you might have to remove them entirely. Certainly something is very wrong as the fifth wheel should ride level.

I mostly wanted bags for a better ride and the ability to level the rear end. The dry pin weight is 2,300 pounds, so I'm pushing my GVW as it is. (Please no weight police discussion) The air bags reduce the galloping on bouncy freeways. My little shockwave was only like 700 pound pin weight dry and it would bounce all over, not bad but enough for the wife to comment. So I'm trying to get a better ride.

[rhagfo]

2001400ex wrote:
Are they already flipped? My pickup doesn't ride that high, no lift or anything. Just a standard height GMC from 08. Although my tires might be an inch taller than stock. (And yes the build quality of the Arctic package sucks) But I didn't think I'd have to adjust anything with a basically stock pickup. Again, thanks for the responses!!!

Yep, axle under spring, time to look at a sub frame.

[Lwiddis]

"so I'm hoping tweaking the ball height and air bags I'll get a level ride."

I don't think that will do enough.

[Artum_Snowbird]

I question why you wanted air bags installed. I bet your 3/4 ton suspension was perfectly happy to connect to the pin weight without air bags. Take them off, the back of the truck will drop a couple of inches.

I had bags on my one ton and when they finally fell apart and I cut them out I could connect up to my boat trailer without putting a lift board under the front loading crank up wheel on the trailer.

Bags are generally used when carrying a heavy load, more like a camper than a light fifth wheel, and they are not designed to be pumped up and lift the camper up, they are designed to correct side to side sagging. Try dropping bag pressure down to 15 (or the minimum they are supposed to have), but even still you might have to remove them entirely. Certainly something is very wrong as the fifth wheel should ride level.

[kzspree320]

The air bags are a huge problem. It looks like either the bottom bracket of the air bag slid sideways because it wasn't torqued properly or the bottom bracket was not directly under the top bracket when installed. Hard to tell from just one pic.

You are way nose high. I doubt it can be fixed without an axle flip but hard to tell from pictures.

I agree your tire man is an idiot if he said run 60 psi in the tires. Good luck.

[2001400ex]

Are they already flipped? My pickup doesn't ride that high, no lift or anything. Just a standard height GMC from 08. Although my tires might be an inch taller than stock. (And yes the build quality of the Arctic package sucks) But I didn't think I'd have to adjust anything with a basically stock pickup. Again, thanks for the responses!!!