Payload Capacity and Towing Questions

[BigSpenda864]

I Will start off by saying that I heavily researched the type of RV I wanted and was dead set on a bumper pull travel trailer over a fifth wheel. I wasn't ready to buy my RV yet but had to go ahead and purchase a new vehicle that would be my tow vehicle. I opted for a 2018 F250, Crew Cab, 4WD, Platinum, diesel. The truck will tow any travel trailer (or fifth wheel for that matter) that I am considering. The problem (of course) is payload capacity, something I knew nothing about at the time of my truck purchase two months ago. I was told at the Ford dealer, and every single RV dealer I visited (and I visited a lot of them), that the F250 I was going to buy could tow "everything on the lot except a few of the biggest fifth wheels." Due to all the options on my truck (which is very nice I must say), and the fact that it is a 3/4 ton, my payload capacity ain't great.

Now, I've started question whether I would prefer a fifth wheel. it would not exceed 35' in total length with advertised hitch weight ranging from 1600# to 2300# (I realize a loaded trailer may increase these numbers).

So here are the truck's numbers:
GVWR: 10,000
Front GAWR: 5200
Rear GAWR: 6340
Payload Capacity: 2145

So the questions are:

A fifth wheel with a hitch weight of 1600# will exceed my payload capacity once its and the truck is loaded with my family and junk.

1. It appears the negative effects of exceeding the payload capacity of the tow vehicle are: possible legalities, wear and tear, and safety. Any others?

2. What ways exist to counteract the negative effect of the wear and tear and safety? Air bags, more suspension, etc? I realize the trucks official payload cannot be increased but are there ways to safely handle the higher payload safely.

3. Do these solutions truly counteract the negatives of my payload limitations?

[Grit_dog]

4x4ord wrote:
In Alberta Canada very few dealers order in diesel F250's. I will never understand why Ford makes such a truck. Anyway because you already own it I think you should replace your F250 emblems with F350 emblems, add air bags, scribble out the GVWR numbers on your door sticker and pretend you have an F350. In your mind call your GVWR 13500 lbs, your truck won't know the difference and neither will your trailer or anybody else.

That's pretty much accurate, as tongue in cheek as you were attempting to be.....
Although I do agree with you seems western Canadia is mostly 1 tons and not many 3/4 tons. Bonus when used truck shopping for sure.

[Grit_dog]

IdaD wrote:
I don't think I really have the energy to get into this again, so I'll just say OP's truck should be able to safely handle most if not almost all fifth wheels in the size range he's contemplating. Stay within that 6340 lb RAWR and you're golden, OP. Just be sure you're registered properly for the weight.

Lol. And at that, 6340lbs is ultra conservative. I'll see your 6340 and raise you a 7200 (just based on wheels.). Someone will have bigspenda trading up to a F450 before the thread dies...

[thomas201]

Shop 1/2 ton towable 5th wheels. Loaded, even an extra truck spare tire, my pin on a 2011 Cougar, with a rear kitchen, is 1240#.

[4x4ord]

In Alberta Canada very few dealers order in diesel F250's. I will never understand why Ford makes such a truck. Anyway because you already own it I think you should replace your F250 emblems with F350 emblems, add air bags, scribble out the GVWR numbers on your door sticker and pretend you have an F350. In your mind call your GVWR 13500 lbs, your truck won't know the difference and neither will your trailer or anybody else.

[silverfz]

Every year the trailer are getting lighter and smaller trailers are getting all the option upgrades.
by the time you buy you can probabily find all the feature is a lighter package.

[gmw_photos]

IdaD wrote:
I don't think I really have the energy to get into this again, so I'll just say OP's truck should be able to safely handle most if not almost all fifth wheels in the size range he's contemplating. Stay within that 6340 lb RAWR and you're golden, OP. Just be sure you're registered properly for the weight.

^^^^ This, ( and a few other similar replies ), is also what I would say.

Go to a big winter-snowbird-resort like where I spend the winter and talk to the many guys that pull fifth wheels with 2500 class trucks. You'll get some first hand comments on how things are done in the real world.

"Enjoy your new fifth wheel and your very capable truck".

[blt2ski]

I've run down the road at 9400-9600 gvwr with a GM rated at 9200, pulling a 6000 lb trailer, total gcwr was usually around 15-16K. My rating was 12500! I never felt unsafe towing said set with wife and 4 kids in the truck. Even been upwards of 20k GCWR. I was under my rated axel weight ratings. I will also point out, per weight laws of Wa St, I was LEGAL in ALL instances.
We buy tonnage in 2000 lb increments. One takes tare, ie empty wt, you appear to be just shy of 8000 lbs. Multiply by 1.5, so 11900 or so for you, you will by a license at the next highest ton, or 12K. This is what you would be legal too run down the road at here.
Assuming you have the tire width times 500lbs per inch, to hold that weight. More than likely you have 4 10-11" tires, so 5000 per tire, 10K per axel or 20K total for truck weight. I seriously doubt you will be weighing more than 20K for JUST the truck! From a true legal standpoint, both this states rules, which follows the Federal Bridge Law rules to a T, you have no worries from being pulled over. Even IF you were over your legal 12K, lets say 14K. This is not a moving violation, so it is not turned into the insurance company, licensing agency etc.
With this in mind, assuming 2000 lbs of payload to work with, divide that number by the % of HW you want, and you will have the max trailer you can tow. 10% is 2000/.10 = 20K lbs of trailer. 20% is 2000/.20 = 10,000 lbs of trailer.
Also remember you have over 11000 lbs of axel capacity, many larger trucks in the DOT class 4 and larger relm, the gvwr does equal the sum of the axel capacities. My class 5 Navistar is this way.

marty

[JIMNLIN]

864 wrote:
1. It appears the negative effects of exceeding the payload capacity of the tow vehicle are: possible legalities, wear and tear, and safety. Any others?

LOL...yeah its getting redundit or redundet or blather...bla...blab...anyways here goes. No bash meant op as we all had to have this explained at one time. Ford diesel forums can give you real skinny on F250/F350 srw same as/etc.
Anyways
1. possible legalities... (civil or legal) are being over a axle/tire load ratings or if your state has some type of weights for registration purposes (not all state do). Payload number or gvwr numbers aren't used for any civil or legal weight issues.
Wear and tear... these same exact trucks are worked hard every day by our commercial brothers and sisters right up to their max axle/tire loads ... and we do so for several hundred thousand miles. Those that want load the truck up and pull a rv can do the same.
NHTSA says this about components of the GAWR:
"Gross Axle Weight Rating is the rated load-carrying capacity of an individual axle and wheel assembly. (It represents the load that may be steadily sustained by the components in the system; i.e., tires, rims, hubs, bearing, axles, brakes, suspension, sub frame, etc. with the GAWR limited by the components with the lowest working rating".

Safety ....same answer as wear and tear.

The only way to determine how much load your truck can carry in the bed (pin weight/hitch/other gear/etc) is take it to a set of CAT scales and weigh the trucks front and rear axles separately. Many F250/350 owners report the truck rear axle can weigh in the 3000-3200 lb range leaving around 3100-3200 lbs for a in the bed payload.

Get'r weighed and you will know your exact payload numbers.

[IdaD]

I don't think I really have the energy to get into this again, so I'll just say OP's truck should be able to safely handle most if not almost all fifth wheels in the size range he's contemplating. Stay within that 6340 lb RAWR and you're golden, OP. Just be sure you're registered properly for the weight.

[BigSpenda864]

Thanks to those who actually took the time to read and reply with useful information and opinions...

The truck accessory places always seem to have an answer. They claim adding a few devices/systems will make a 250 equal to a 350 in payload capacity. Of course they are selling the devices so you have to take that into account. The difference between a 2018 F250 and F350 is basically springs. That's why I ask the questions.

It sounds like its a cost-benefit analysis between a TT I can handle now and a 5er with a new truck. If that's the choice, I'll likely go TT. Thanks again to those who actually helped!

[Old-Biscuit]

GWVR and Payload ratings (a byproduct of GVWR) are MFG warranty issues and Vehicle Registration issues...NOT 'criminal' issues

Axle/Tire Load Ratings ARE DOT 'LEGAL' issues
SO stay AT/Under the Axle/Tire Ratings

2018 250/2500 can handle the WET pin weight of a 14K 5th wheel W/O going over the RAWR/Rear Tire Load Ratings.

[goducks10]

I tow 200 lbs over my GVWR. 1100 lbs under the RAWR. 3200 lbs under tow rating and 2000 lb under my rear tires max load. My towing experience is about as good as it gets. Except for slower acceleration and longer stopping distances from pulling 9000 lbs I don't even feel the 5er behind me. As long as you're under the RAWR, tow rating and GCVWR you won't have any trouble. I'd have no problem adding another 500 lbs to my RAWR.

[Mickeyfan0805]

I tend to try to encourage people to be fairly true to ratings, but I wouldn't squawk at someone being 50-100 pounds over a 10k GVWR. That said, the number you are toying with are going to result in you being more like 500-1,000 pounds over! My short answer is no, I don't think there is a reasonable way to counteract that significant an overage.

Go back to the TT idea - you can get plenty of trailer and stay well within your ratings. We have 2,100 pounds of payload and we tow a 35' trailer, a family of 5 and a 100 pound dog - all while staying well within our ratings!

[DutchmenSport]

Reconsider a travel trailer. Problem solved.