Poor Tire Install

[LIKE2BUILD]

Prior to a recent vacation I had new tires (5.3 X 12) installed on our jet ski trailer. I didn't know the age of the old tires and didn't want to risk a blow out on the road. About 150 miles into our 650 mile trip one of the tires exploded spectacularly but thankfully we got the vehicle slowed quickly and there was no damage. I looked all over the tread and found no signs of punctures, cuts, or imbedded objects that would have caused the tire to rapidly lose air. The outer side wall had completely separated from the tire right at the edge of the tread.

As I started to remove the blown tire I was baffled to see an inner tube wrapped around the axle :? :E "Wait, didn't I purchase tubeless tires? Sure enough I did.... It read TUBELESS right there on the side wall. After swapping the spare I realized all 3 had inner tube valve stems, not tubeless.

As I drove to the nearest town to get a replacementI called the shop that installed them and told them I had a blow out. Their first response was I ran over something which I had confirmed was incorrect. When I asked why I found a tube in the tire he started to spew malarkey about them using tubes when the tire won't seat on the bead so I must have a bad wheel. I then asked how that's possible when I brought them 3 wheels that were all mounted tubeless and those tire were holding air just fine. :M

The two jet skis plus trailer weighs about 1,700 lbs and these tires are rated for 1,050lbs each. I know they were at max cold pressure prior to leaving so the issue isn't overloading. The only issue would be the friction from tubes inside a tubeless tire. When I returned from vacation I went back to the shop and demanded they refund me for the two tires that were on the ground and to dismount the spare and remount it tubeless. They tried to give me the runaround saying they put tubes in those tires all the time but eventually agreed to my demand. Oh, and the tire they remounted miraculously went on the bead just fine so that story about my wheels must have bad spots didn't hold water.

My guess is the tire tech was lazy and just threw inner tubes in them so he didn't have to bother cleaning the bead on the wheel. These were cheap Chinese made tires, but I had used this brand for years without issue. Of course this could have been the one bad tire in the bunch, but I'm 99% convinced the main issue was the heat generated from the tube inside the tubeless tire.

When searching the topic I found many references warning not to do this. Here is one reference, and another article, and yet another reference. If this were a lawn mower or other low speed tire I would have no problem with a tube, but not a highway tire. I've used this shop for a long time for my trailer tires but this will be the last time. If they are silly enough to do this I don't want to run the risk of what else they may do.

KJ

[mkirsch]

Well for one thing I would NEVER trust a 12" tire for a 650 mile trip! They are far too small and spin far too fast for a long-distance trip. The ones I've used had a speed limitation on them... 55MPH as I recall.

If you have the clearance, upgrade to at least a 175/80R13. Even the 13" tire turns 25% slower, which is much easier on the tire and the wheel bearings. I did that on my small utility trailer and I feel much better about towing it long distances. The tires and bearings arrive cool, when they were slightly warm to the touch with the 12" tires.

[Roger10378]

I haven't found a tire shop that I can trust yet. One of the things that I catch most often is them using passenger tire stems in SP and LT tires. I have had 3 times(3 different shops) that I had to have them redo valve stems because they had used the wrong ones.

[cummins2014]

One of the big reasons I stand right over those guys when I get new tires mounted ,and balanced . Last time I was in a tire shop , it was almost scary to watch those young guys.

I had sold my friend a new set of fifth wheel tires , and had went to the Sailuns . We took down all ten tires ,and wheels. I had to stop them two times they were putting his old tires on my wheels instead of my new ones that were sitting right there.

[SweetLou]

I had small tires on a small trailer which I changed out. I kept one as a spare but it wouldn't seat on the bead and it would be flat in a week. I wanted an inner tube put in for a spare tire. I bought my size online. I went to my local Pep Boys in Indio CA. and I had bought all 6 of my Michelin for my Dually there because they had a great sale at the time so I went back to have them put the tube in this tire for me. After waiting 15 min, they said they can't install this. I asked why? They stated no one there knew how to do that. I said you told me when I got the tires for my truck that you had mechanics there with 30 yrs experience. They never had a bicycle? I said you don't inspire confidence for my Truck tires at all. I got another tire shop to install it, however it is for a spare and will work well if needed. Don't go to Pep Boys Indio CA.

[BenK]

KJ,

Your cylinder count is up there !

Don't forget lawn mowers, line trimmers, chain saws, model aircraft & boats, air compressors...

We did catch a buddy counting guns and fixed that by re-defining that it has to have a reciprocating piston

We bet Costco Dogs for any of these contests...

Back on tires...they are remarkable in light of how folks missus and abuse them

[CapriRacer]

A couple of thoughts:

Determining if a tire failed due to a road hazard is not something an amateur can do very well. Even after 20 years of doing it, I occasionally screw up! I have found that I am much more successful if I can examine the inside of the tire. Trying to find a cut or puncture from the outside is pretty difficult.

"The outer side wall had completely separated from the tire right at the edge of the tread." This is a classic run flat condition. That leads me to believe this was a puncture related failure. Plus the mention of an sudden explosion further leads me to believe in a road hazard.

Innertubes? Yes that is puzzling. It's quite possible that the tube failed. I have found that valve holes for tubeless wheels are not mounted in the best location for tubes.

I don't like the excuse that if the tire doesn't seal, they put in a tube. Tubes are relatively expensive compared to what fixing the wheel seal would cost.

On the other hand, there are a lot of wackos working in tire shops.

Based on that experience I wouldn't give those guys any more business.

[LIKE2BUILD]

BenK wrote:
Poor 'excuse', when there is no excuse for this. Plain bad workmanship and decisions

If that tire was either a radial or bias-ply and the inner tube was the other (there are radial & bias-ply inner tubes), then criminal IMO...and you have a case against them

But the cost of going after them might no be worth it to you

As a min, report them to BBB and RMA (or whatever tire/rubber associations they fall under)

I didn't know they had bias or radial tubes. You learn something new every day.

No need to go after them legally. They refunded me for the 2 tires I replaced and they removed the inner tube in my spare so I'm going to call that even. Now, had there been damage to my trailer or if the blown tire had caused an accident then you can bet I'd be right in there faces for mechanical damages + extra. If an accident had happened that would have significantly hampered if not ruined my vacation and to me that would have required compensation. Thankfully none of that happened so the refund was good enough.

I suppose I could report them to the BBB or the local Chamber of Commerce. I guess I could also contact the headquarters and ask them if this is a company practice or if this is just something the local shop does. For certain I'm going to speak with my $$ because all of my business will be going to a different tire shop. Not that I'm the biggest spending tire customer at that store, but with all the trailers and vehicles I own there's always something that needs tires replaced or repaired. From now on, all of that my money will go somewhere else.

At bare minimum this is a very poor practice and is not something that a 'professional' tire shop should be doing. If they can't get a tire to seat and they determine the problem is the wheel then they need to contact the customer and inform them the wheel needs replaced. In my case, all 3 wheels were fine, they just did a rotten job on the install.

By the way Ben, in your signature you ask how many cylinders in your house? Between everything that goes on the road or floats I have 50 cylinders. 10 of those are diesel so only 40 spark plugs to deal with :B

KJ

[BenK]

Poor 'excuse', when there is no excuse for this. Plain bad workmanship and decisions

If that tire was either a radial or bias-ply and the inner tube was the other (there are radial & bias-ply inner tubes), then criminal IMO...and you have a case against them

But the cost of going after them might no be worth it to you

As a min, report them to BBB and RMA (or whatever tire/rubber associations they fall under)

[LIKE2BUILD]

mich800 wrote:
That is a weird policy. Did they really save any time messing around with a tube plus the additional cost to them. Almost seems like they are covering their tracks for a improper install stating it was policy.

Yeah, pretty much nothing they said did not make sense. The fact that they put inner tubes in tubeless tires "all the time" doesn't add up. You have a wheels and tires designed to be tubeless for very specific engineering reasons and slapping a tube in there because the tire 'won't seat on the bead' is inexecusable. If the tire won't seal you either have a bad tire, a bad wheel, or poor installation technique. Either way, you don't throw an inner tube bandaid on it, you fix the problem and install the tire properly.

[LIKE2BUILD]

WNYBob wrote:
How old were the tires that blew? (Check the date of your "new" ones)
Always check the DOT dates and demand tires that are less than a year old!
WNYBZOB

Not sure. I dropped them off for new tires and picked them up later. They had to order the tires from the main warehouse but that also doesn't guarantee 'freshness'.

[mich800]

That is a weird policy. Did they really save any time messing around with a tube plus the additional cost to them. Almost seems like they are covering their tracks for a improper install stating it was policy.

[WNYBob]

How old were the tires that blew? (Check the date of your "new" ones)
Always check the DOT dates and demand tires that are less than a year old!
WNYBZOB

[Grit_dog]

guidry wrote:
Name of shop so they can be avoided?

In case you're driving through IL from cajun texas and happen to need tires?
LOL

Edit, oops OP explained already.

Tire shops no different than ANY other business. If you don't verify the service or product provided (not saying I or anyone else doesn't trust and not verify sometimes), you stand to be disappointed sometimes.
But that was ignorant to put tubes in those tires. Although one would think a savvy shop would charge for the tubes since considerably more expensive than just a mount n balance.
Maybe the same tire guy that argued with me that trailer wheels don't need to be balanced like car wheels.....cause you cant feel them when driving!

[LIKE2BUILD]

guidry wrote:
Name of shop so they can be avoided?

It's a regional shop with stores in Illinois and Indiana. I don't know if this is a common practice among all locations so I don't want to bash them online and I don't even want to drag my local shop through the mud.

The main thing really is buyer beware by making sure they're mounted properly. Obviously if you go to a tire shop, you should assume and expect they know what they're doing and you can leave with confidence. I would have never given one thought to them having installed tubes and when I checked air pressures the different valve stem didn't register with me. You can bet from now on I'll be giving a very close look at the tires whenever I have any work done. A buyer shouldn't have to double check the work of a tire shop, but now that changes for me.

KJ