Practicality of non-propane Camper

[DiploStrat]

Is it possible to have an all-electric (or, at least, no propane) camper? Of course, been doing it since 2013. (OK, true confession, our outside grill is propane as you usually can't use charcoal west of the Mississippi due to fire bans.)

A serious answer.

Our first EV (expedition vehicle) had 500w of solar and 600Ah of lead acid battery. The worst camping weather we ever faced was five days of tropical storm rain at Overland EXPO East. To protect our batteries, we simply idled the engine for the 20-30 minutes we were cooking meals. We have only had to do this once since 2013.

Our current vehicle has 800Ah of lithium iron and 600w of solar. Of course, we also have a bigger, two door refrigerator.

Historic data: We budget 30 wall clock minutes of power per meal; 15 minutes of microwave and 15 minutes of induction cooktop. At a guesstimated consumption of 150A, this works out to about 75Ah for a dinner. With a two door refrigerator, fans/heat, lights, etc., we are usually down about 125 - 135Ah overnight.

Lithium iron allows a lot more power in less space/weight, but we did this for years with lead acid AGM.

We visit family in the northern part of the US and the temperatures drop to below 0F. This pretty much requires diesel or gasoline heat.

We can run the air conditioner over night, but this consumes on the order of 500Ah, and that is hard to recover without using shore power.

[Reisender]

For those who are towing with trucks like the Rivian or the F150 lightning I suppose they could just use the 120 volt output on the truck to power things like ceramic stoves or water heaters or heat pumps or whatever. Or just use a trailers on board battery bank and recharge it from a robust charging system using the trucks 120 volt or 240 volt output. Of course one would at some point need to have access to a fast charger for the truck at a reasonable distance to the camping site.

Our tow vehicle is electric but I can’t see us ever doing anything like that as the propane system on our trailer meets all our needs. We do have the ability to charge the trailer AGMs from the tow vehicle albeit at max 10 amps at 12 volts. Good enough in a pinch if we ran the trailer battery down and we needed 12 volts for the trailers hydronic heating water circulation pump. But other than testing the concept we have never had to do that. And unlike the new 1/2 ton electric trucks our Electric SUV doesn’t have a built in 120 volt inverter. Meh, propane is fine for us. The all electric concept is kinda cool though.

Cheers.

[DiploStrat]

valhalla360 wrote:

DiploStrat wrote:
As noted previously, agreed. I could have been more precise in the thread title.

Or completely misleading.

Should have been:

"Practicality of a Diesel-Electric Camper"


Yes, it can certainly be done. Heck it's done with trains and ships. Certainly can be done with an RV but the market is largely built around propane so unless you have a specialty need, there isn't really any benefit for the vast majority of people.

EDITED TO READ: Fixed the Topic title! 🙂


Certainly no attempt to mislead. Quite the contrary, my soapbox is built by the people telling me that I can't do what I have done for years. 😄

Agree completely, not everybody wants to do what I do, but a lot of people who visit our camper are interested.

[valhalla360]

DiploStrat wrote:
As noted previously, agreed. I could have been more precise in the thread title.

Or completely misleading.

Should have been:

"Practicality of a Diesel-Electric Camper"


Yes, it can certainly be done. Heck it's done with trains and ships. Certainly can be done with an RV but the market is largely built around propane so unless you have a specialty need, there isn't really any benefit for the vast majority of people.

[DiploStrat]

Microlite Mike wrote:
...

When it comes to eliminating Propane from one's typical RV one might be able to do so if they only camp in temperate climes. I encountered a couple in Arizona a couple years ago that had about 600w of solar power on the roof of their converted Step-Van and cooked using either an Instant Pot or Induction "hot plate".

Since they didn't need either heat or A/C it was very workable.

I do think that many have either never camped "old school" in a tent of old "teardrop trailer" or if they have, they've forgotten how it was done without heaters. Perhaps that was why large dog breeds were so popular back in the day :W

I have camped old school - for years! This was our rig for decades. Camp outside Jos And, after years of freezing our knees, even with a dog, we are all about heat.

As noted, we use a microwave/toaster/induction cooktop/Nespresso and are now playing with an Instant Pot. (Gotta measure the total amp draw when pressure cooking.) Never run out of power.

I find your comment about heat to be a bit the reverse of our experience. With diesel heat and a fullish tank, we have heat for weeks, if not months, even at 0F. Now, we are not a 'typical' RV in that we have dual pane windows, no cold bridges, and about two inches of foam on all sides. But I would propose that it is propane heat, not diesel heat that is limiting. In fact, at 30k BTU, our Dual Top is actually oversized for our space. (The cat does not complain. :))

[way2roll]

I must have missed the part where it was said someone was a fool or that it couldn't be done.

[Slownsy]

Microlite Mike I have definitely been there, when used to ride motorcycle, and 3 mates shared a 4 man tent and could have gotten away with a 2 person one.
Frank.

[Microlite_Mike]

toedtoes wrote:
There are always idiots who say "never" to anything they don't personally like. Nothing you say or show will convince them otherwise.

Personally, I camp with only propane and battery. No generator, no hookups, no solar. Many will argue that I am doing it all wrong and how I need to do this or that to improve my camping experience. I just ignore them, save my money, and enjoy my camping my way.

You could also add to the opening statement that they also tell others they are fools if they don't use items on their "approved list". (ie Battery type, Generator Brand, Battery Monitor, etc)


When it comes to eliminating Propane from one's typical RV one might be able to do so if they only camp in temperate climes. I encountered a couple in Arizona a couple years ago that had about 600w of solar power on the roof of their converted Step-Van and cooked using either an Instant Pot or Induction "hot plate".

Since they didn't need either heat or A/C it was very workable.

I do think that many have either never camped "old school" in a tent of old "teardrop trailer" or if they have, they've forgotten how it was done without heaters. Perhaps that was why large dog breeds were so popular back in the day :W

[toedtoes]

I know. It's sacrilegious... ??

[DiploStrat]

toedtoes wrote:
There are always idiots who say "never" to anything they don't personally like. Nothing you say or show will convince them otherwise.

Personally, I camp with only propane and battery. No generator, no hookups, no solar. Many will argue that I am doing it all wrong and how I need to do this or that to improve my camping experience. I just ignore them, save my money, and enjoy my camping my way.

No solar! Dude! Your toes will fall off! :E

I am not advocating that anyone what I do. I am merely making a bumble bee statement - rumor to the contrary, I can actually fly!

And, if COVID rates continue to rise, I will have wasted a lot of money as I won't be able to ship. 😞

[toedtoes]

There are always idiots who say "never" to anything they don't personally like. Nothing you say or show will convince them otherwise.

Personally, I camp with only propane and battery. No generator, no hookups, no solar. Many will argue that I am doing it all wrong and how I need to do this or that to improve my camping experience. I just ignore them, save my money, and enjoy my camping my way.

[DiploStrat]

toedtoes wrote:
...

What you are describing is simply "eliminating propane".

As noted previously, agreed. I could have been more precise in the thread title.

Propane fittings in the US and Canada are the same (Don't know about Mexico), but that is emphatically not the case in Europe and much of South America. Depends on where you want to travel. (Same reason that I use a composting toilet, not a black tank. Those beasts are a bear to deal with outside of the US. Not because there is anything wrong with them, but because no one uses them.)

Beyond that, using diesel or gasoline for cabin heat can give you longer autonomy when traveling/camping.

Scholars can debate the safety of propane, but in most cases, it is not an issue. Especially if you do not use a propane refrigerator.

In the end it all depends on how you use your camper.

As noted here, many are convinced that you cannot build a camper without propane and a generator. You can, but you will need systems that are more robust than those on many production RV's.

Nice discussion by Rick Howe HERE.

[toedtoes]

In your first post, you speak of issues with different hookups for propane, etc. In that situation, I could see choosing to change your setup to something simpler.

But for most people, the propane system is the same everywhere they go. Propane is easy to obtain, so special connections are required, etc. So why go through all the hassle of converting to diesel or gasoline heat and hot water?

And as has been mentioned, "all electric" means just that - ALL electric. If you are using diesel or gasoline for certain things, then you aren't really all electric.

What you are describing is simply "eliminating propane".

[DiploStrat]

K3WE wrote:
Very simple: Do you want, or need to camp with batteries/no electrical hookup?

This nails the essence of what I am talking about - extended camping without propane or shore power. None of this is relevant if your normal mode of travel is to go to campgrounds with power/water/etc.

I am NOT proposing that this is better or required, simply noting that it is the way some of us travel.

Typical battery setups fall way way way short on heating, cooking and AC .

This is exactly my point - typical setups can't do it. But it is not that hard to build a camper than can, and easily. I do have a microwave, toaster, Nespresso, cooktop, computer, vacuum, etc. Don't use (need) :(a hair dryer.

As noted, I have once, in 8 years, bothered to actually start the engine for meal prep, and this was more of a precaution in a tropical storm, rather then a necessity due to dead batteries.

A basic set up would entail:

-- Diesel, gasoline, or heat exchanger for cabin heat and hot water.

-- Around 150Ah of battery for every day that you expect no sun and will not start the engine. That is more than we have ever used. We went for years with a 600Ah AGM battery which gave us between 300 and 450Ah usable. Lithium batteries are not required, but they do save a lot of weight and space.

-- A 2000 - 3000w inverter. We have a 2000w with a 12v air conditioner. With a 110v air conditioner, we used a 2800w unit.

-- The rule of thumb is 100w of solar per 100A of battery. The magic numbers come in the 1000 - 1500w range. At 1500w you can feed 50-75A to your air conditioner and still have 50+A to charge your batteries. (Friend of mine has this and I am sooooo jealous! He doesn't even bother to charge from his engine and runs his air conditioner 24/7 in Mexico. Of course, he does have really good sun! Everlanders)

Offered for your consideration.

[Grit_dog]

^OMG that was so funnny I can’t correct it!
I was typing the word “thread.” LOL!!

[Grit_dog]

pianotuna wrote:

DiploStrat wrote:
And I would certainly never try to heat a camper electrically, although I have seen a lot of folks using heat strips or pumps.

I have heated 100% electrically at -37 C (-34 f). The wattage needed was about 4100 watt-hours. Peak load was about 7000 watts.

I use several heat sources. It does require that I have either a 50 amp shore power supply, or three 15 amp circuits.

Again, missed the point. In the spirit of the Trudeau at least!