Rant on buying an RV - long

[avan]

I have been off RV Net for about 3 years after having stopped a 15 yr full timing run. I now live in the Everglades FL area and am thinking of buying a used higher end 28-30' B+ to summer-bird in and so have been looking for the past 2 months or so. I have been willing to pretty much look anywhere in the country but since, through no fault of any sellers out there,FL is a long peninsula and Naples is close to the far end, I have been trying to whittle through the choices by asking, via email, lots of questions including sometimes more pictures. use email because it is easier for me to remember, review and compare written responses vs a phone conversation.

In 15 yrs of FTing, I've probably been a guest in a thousand units and don't need to ask about the basics. Further, manufacturer's brochures are available online for every year obviating the need to ask things like tank sizes, floor plan descriptions etc. Every brochure I've seen tells one what the standard equipment is on each model. So though I ask questions, they are pretty tailored to the specific offering - like tell me what tears, rips and battle scars there are on the unit; are the batteries & tires original; one owner; VIN etc?

First, why do sellers use consignment????????? And if a seller is considering a consignment dealer, why doesn't the seller call or email the dealer, as if interested in another unit, in order to see what effort the dealer will put forth.

For example, PPL had 3 units that I thought were of interest. I put together 3 separate emails, one for each rig, asking my questions. I used a format wherein a question is asked and more than adequate answer space was provided after each question. I suggested that if it were easier, the email could just be printed,the answers penciled in, with the sheet then scanned and sent back to me. I stated that my phone service was, at best, spotty, that I lived over a 1000 miles away and that I had no trade in and needed no loan. Over a 2 week period and two repeat re-sends of my emails, I still had no response - not even an automated "we got your email but we're on vacation and it'll be a year before we get back to you".

So I called. I asked to speak with a sales manager or sales supervisor. I could not get past the person answering the phone and her 99 questions so I finally explained that I was calling to see if PPL was still in business since emails are ignored. It was like she was a brick wall erected by the company solely for the purpose of irritating customers. I gave her my email address along with the fact that they had 3 (times 3 rigs) already unanswered emails from me and suggested that the answers to her questions would be contained in my number of emails now residing in their 'unanswered' email box.

I soon got an email from one of their salespeople asking what rigs I was interested in etc. and so, now armed with an individual's actual email address, I forwarded my prior email sets including their 3 stock numbers. I rec'd an email back saying that PPL has hundreds of units on consignment and that they are 'just too busy to answer questions but if I were just to stop by (never mind the distance) all their units are open and I could just spend as much time as I wanted looking at what ever I wanted'. My questions were designed to help me decide if buying a plane ticket to Houston was worthwhile. Like what's so hard about sending me the VIN so I can CarFax the units? Two of those units are still there, nearly 2 months later, and the sellers are probably wondering why their units are not yet sold and PPL is probably telling them that interest is low and so they should lower their price.

One Tampa area dealer had a unit on his lot that was listed on RVTrader as 'on consignment'. I wrote via the dealer's internal web mail form and via RVTrader's webmail inquiry process to get more info. The dealer website and RVTrader ad both had but one picture - an exterior side view - with no info other than year and make of the rig - no mileage, no condition, zero info. No answer. I sent a copy of my completed RV Webmail form to RVTrader a week or so later saying that there had been no response. RVTrader acknowledged receipt but I still heard nothing from the dealer. A few weeks later, when in the general Tampa area, I drove to the dealer lot. The unit was there. The salesman that greeted me knew (surprise, surprise) nothing about the rig in his sparse inventory and when he couldn't figure out how to even start the rig, he called the dealer out to help.

Given the opportunity I asked the dealer why my webmails to him via his web site and via RVTrader had not been answered and why there was only 1 picture on his and RVTrader's site with no description. He replied that it was only a consignment unit and he didn't have the time, money or inclination to take photos (plural)and write descriptions for consignment units - "after all, I'm on a busy street and lots of people ride by". I got in my car and kept on riding.

I could literally go on and on with other examples - Dallas, Mountain Home, AR, N. Chicago Suburb, N. Detroit Suburb etc. So what is the attraction of folks to consignment??? Not one consignment that I've contacted has been properly represented and it appears to me that a consigned unit will only sell if lightning strikes the dealership.

Then there are the dealers who advertise prices that are not close to realistic. At least those are better than the dealers who, when advertising a 3-4 model year old rig, rather than quoting even an unrealistic price, insist on advertising it by saying "MSRP $xxx,xxx.xx". There can't be an RVer alive that would believe 'MSRP' on a new rig and even fewer that would think that the brand new MSRP price was even remotely relevant to a used, previously titled, camped in and driven rig. We RV buyers are not that dumb, are we?

Finally on the dealer's side, we have those who will only say "Call for today's low price". They should rather hold up a sign saying 'run for your life'. And if one does go to where the cell service is not spotty and call, rather than answer a most simple basic "what is your asking price" question (as we are invited to ask),the no-sales person has dozens of personal questions for me. "What price range are you looking for?" "What is your budget?" "Are you familiar with this spectacular, exceptional, great valued (pick one) brand" etc. etc. etc. Surprised none have yet to ask me how my love life is! Hey dealers, I'm not looking to date you! I just want to know what your opening asking price is. You invited me to the dance. I know you want to know how much $ I have in my pocket first but my business model is not to negotiate with myself but with you. So start it off. Price too high and I won't play your game. Make it too hard for me before I'm even a customer by asking me questions as tactic to avoid answering mine and I won't play your game either. Are there really that many naive RV buyers so as to make these tactics worthwhile? All I'm looking for is a compelling deal - a reasonable combination of quality/functionality and price - something that says "you should take good look at this rig/deal." I don't want to make this my life's work.

And I guess I should say something to some of the private party sellers. When I ask for pictures, I want them to tell the story of your RV. Make the pics a tour of your RV and not of your personal items that you are so proud of. I'm really not interested that you have a frog doll or whatever on your driver's seat. It just makes me wonder if it is covering a rip. So you added a spare tire. I don't need two pictures of that and none of the rest of the exterior. A spare tire only cost $100-$150. That you spent those $$ is just not that important such that it obviates relevant picture of what's really for sale.

So what am I missing in my search? I'm almost at the point where it just isn't worth the effort.

[kohai]

JALLEN4 wrote:
The only thing a salesperson brings to the table is time and knowledge. He either closes sales or doesn't make money or even have a job for very long.

By industry statistics, a well trained salesperson will sell about 20% of the people he waits on in person, eventually. He will sell two or three percent of those he corresponds with on the Internet and the further away the potential customer is the lower the percentage falls.

If your financial well being was dependent on making the sale, would you spend your time on live people or corresponding with what could be simply a lonely person? Cruel but very true. Factually, less than fifty-percent of those who inquire by email will even remember the name of or ask for the person who answered the emails.

A well run dealership should be able to handle all of those cases. The younger generation expects online interactions. Sure they sell to retired people, but the younger buyers now (and the buyers of the future) have a different expectation about being able to shop online.

[peaches_cream]

Some of the people that post on here have a motto: We are not happy until you are unhappy. :@

[qtla9111]

jplante4 wrote:

rkentzel wrote:
If I call on an ad who might be sitting next to me so really who might that be. If you have an ad why would it be to much trouble to tell me what color it would be. To make fun of a color disability really that is a new low on this board.

Sorry, calling color blindness a disability is insulting to people who have a real disability, such as people who have had their legs blown off by IED in Afghanistan. You can't distinguish black from blue in low light. Ask your other half like I do.

Color blindness is a defect for which there is no cure. I suffer from color-blindness and there is a range of the defect which in deed makes it a disability. Differences in hues to complete lack of color.

Achromatopsia (complete lack of color), tritanopia (blue and yellow hues), protanopia (red and green hues).

I don't make a big deal out of it although it has had an effect on my life over the years. Many people suffer from disabilities which most people cannot detect or see. Be kind to others.

[jplante4]

rkentzel wrote:
If I call on an ad who might be sitting next to me so really who might that be. If you have an ad why would it be to much trouble to tell me what color it would be. To make fun of a color disability really that is a new low on this board.

Sorry, calling color blindness a disability is insulting to people who have a real disability, such as people who have had their legs blown off by IED in Afghanistan. You can't distinguish black from blue in low light. Ask your other half like I do.

[rkentzel]

Well it doesn't matter what color it is then.

"rkentzel"...really....you just wouldn't ask the person sitting next to you to tell you what color????

If I call on an ad who might be sitting next to me so really who might that be. If you have an ad why would it be to much trouble to tell me what color it would be. To make fun of a color disability really that is a new low on this board.

[Community Alumni]

Are these sales statistics specific to the RV industry? It seems every time I went to a dealership the salespeople were loitering around the entrance waiting for someone to come in so they could pounce on them.

A diligent salesperson could be spending his/her time replying to emails and making phone calls when there is no walk-in traffic, which is very often. It boils down to how ambitious the salesperson is. Let's face it, if they were really great, they'd be working elsewhere.

[jsr21]

JALLEN4 wrote:
The only thing a salesperson brings to the table is time and knowledge. He either closes sales or doesn't make money or even have a job for very long.

By industry statistics, a well trained salesperson will sell about 20% of the people he waits on in person, eventually. He will sell two or three percent of those he corresponds with on the Internet and the further away the potential customer is the lower the percentage falls.

If your financial well being was dependent on making the sale, would you spend your time on live people or corresponding with what could be simply a lonely person? Cruel but very true. Factually, less than fifty-percent of those who inquire by email will even remember the name of or ask for the person who answered the emails.

I would think this would be true for the automotive business where the customer could find the unit he was looking for on most corner lots. Ex: he wants an Escalade and there are 28 to choose from in a 50 mile radius.
If the customer wants a specific RV there would be far less to choose from and would probably have to travel a ways.

[JALLEN4]

The only thing a salesperson brings to the table is time and knowledge. He either closes sales or doesn't make money or even have a job for very long.

By industry statistics, a well trained salesperson will sell about 20% of the people he waits on in person, eventually. He will sell two or three percent of those he corresponds with on the Internet and the further away the potential customer is the lower the percentage falls.

If your financial well being was dependent on making the sale, would you spend your time on live people or corresponding with what could be simply a lonely person? Cruel but very true. Factually, less than fifty-percent of those who inquire by email will even remember the name of or ask for the person who answered the emails.

[lbrjet]

2112, that is a very nice and generous offer.

[DSDP_Don]

"rkentzel"...really....you just wouldn't ask the person sitting next to you to tell you what color????

[John_Joey]

rockhillmanor wrote:
The OP is a well respected long time forum member

And is very much appreciated!!! Clicky.

BTW Avan, I was the shortest FT'er in history, 10 full days before DW put an end to that lifestyle. She needed walls I guess ;).

[avan]

Dave. PM'd you with info. Thank you for your kind offer. Your suggestion as to PPL made my post worthwhile. I wondered how to get past all the roadblocks and it never occurred to me that forum members might be willing to give me a thumbs up or down on a particular rig before I travel to see it.

[2112]

avan - Would you like for me to swing by PPL, check out the rig's of your interest, take some pics, call you on the phone?
I don't mind at all.

Welcome Back

Dave

[jplante4]

rkentzel wrote:
May sound stupid to you to ask the color. I am color blind so I may have to ask. So what you may think is a stupid question may be important to that person.

Well it doesn't matter what color it is then.

[rockhillmanor]

2012Coleman wrote:

avan wrote:
I have been off RV Net for about 3 years after having stopped a 15 yr full timing run.

Welcome Back? Maybe the OP doesn't know it, but the last post with his user name was on 05/10/14 10:04am in General RVing Issues. :h

The OP is a well respected long time forum member that pulled off the road RV'ing awhile back. And now posting coming back to RV'ing. Which is why we posted Welcome Back.

No longer RVing, I haven't posted for a few years but do lurk every couple of weeks or so.