I have not seen red diesel personally, because the people I know who run farms buy the usual road-taxed fuel and keep a tally of how much they buy for off-road use here in Texas (form 06-106) for a refund from the state. It makes life easier for them, since they just need one fuel tank, and there is no chance of running the wrong fuel in a vehicle on the road.However, this weekend at a local eatery, I overheard people talking about buying "reefer" fuel (which is red-dyed) at truck stops and saying how much money they saved over conventional diesel, and that nobody will ever know.Is this a common thing?

Pretty easy for the state to check with a clear hose in your tank filler. I believe if you get caught the fine is a grand first time.

I don't know how you would determine if it is common or not; because most people that do it, would never admit to it (anonymously or not). I know plenty of farmers that run "tractor gas" in their cars.

If you're ever in PA try it at your own risk lol. I have had the state revenue people, the taxman not the walrus, come on construction sites and sample fuel from every oil burner there, and more than once or twice. I knew a guy years ago that paid out over $15K in fines. They say once You run it it's almost impossible to get rid of it. I guess they have some way of detecting trace amounts. More to it here than sticking a clear hose in, they bottle up samples and take them to a lab.Its like a piss test for your truck.

white paper at the exhaust tip turns red simple test

troubledwaters wrote:I don't know how you would determine if it is common or not; because most people that do it, would never admit to it (anonymously or not). I know plenty of farmers that run "tractor gas" in their cars.I do and I admit it. My truck fuel and tractor fuel all come from the same bulk tank I have by the barn.I buy un dyed ULSD in bulk and just keep track of the tractor gallons used and every quarter apply for the tax rebate. Pretty simple really.I Haven't used 'off road red dye diesel in years. No point really.... and I never run B20 either.Doing it is one thing. Getting pinched is another. The fine offsets many. many gallons of cheaper fuel.Around here, they just insert a clear hose in your tank, thumb over the end and pull it out. If it has a red hue, then they get serious. I see then at farm auctions and events all the time.They (state people) don't always ask permission either. They walk around and check tanks... If you are dirty, then they formally ask but they already know.

Red diesel on vehicles on the roads? | Good Sam Community

nevadanick
Explorer
Dec 04, 2017
Some of the gas taxes paid are accounted for and brought back to other programs that are not highway related.
https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/recreational_trails/
JaxDad
Explorer III
Dec 04, 2017
minnow wrote:
I wonder how much PA has lost in fuel sales from OTA truckers who probably do the same thing. $1 a gallon taxes for diesel in outrageous.

Not a single penny.

Commercial carriers are required to either buy a fuel tax permit or be registered under the International Fuel Tax Agreement (IFTA). This requires a mileage based payment to each jurisdiction in which a truck operates. The IFTA allows the entire payment to be made to your home State or Province and they spread the money around to the other people they owe fuel tax to.
minnow
Explorer
Dec 04, 2017
Returning to the PA vs. NY tax. PA has the highest gas tax in the country. PA gas tax is 76.6 cents/diesel is 99.1 cents. NY gas is currently at 62.26 cents and diesel is 67.08 cents. When we lived in NY, I made sure we had just enough to get over the border on I-81 and stop at the Flying J. Now when we go up or come back, I fuel up in either VA or NY and bypass having to stop in PA, WV or MD.

I wonder how much PA has lost in fuel sales from OTA truckers who probably do the same thing. $1 a gallon taxes for diesel in outrageous.
JaxDad
Explorer III
Dec 04, 2017
Jarlaxle wrote:
GeorgeNJ wrote:
I had driven heavy trucks for years throughout north Jersey, TT's, roll offs, concrete mixers, etc. Only once was I ever stopped & checked, it happened at the exit of a stone quarry. I had never seen it before or since. Two guys in cop like uniforms with IRS insignias & a marked SUV waved me to stop, opened my tank and stuck a hollow clear glass tube to pull up fuel to look for color. They thanked me and I was on my way. I was driving for a huge corporation who would be the last ones to try such shenanigans, too. I would tend to think the little guys and small diesel vehicle owners would be the most likely ones to try to temp fate with running dyed fuel.

I know it's easy to do it if you wanted to, there are off road fuel pumps around here. Years ago I saw someone filling up his Mercedes diesel powered car at it, I don't know if he knew it or not, but now you can't self help due to newer pumps that need the attendants card to start them.

Wonder what they do if they CAN'T dip the tanks? My last F-350 (converted from gas power) still had the anti-siphon screens in place. My work truck has a metal screen about 3" inside the filler cap---unless the tank is full to the top, dipping it would be impossible.

Having said that: in close to 20 years of driving diesels, I have NEVER been checked.

If it’s a diesel it’s got a water separator, they just open the drain valve and take their sample there.
JaxDad
Explorer III
Dec 04, 2017
Jarlaxle wrote:
JaxDad wrote:
DiskDoctr wrote:
Lawn tractors, chainsaws, generators, water pumps, tractors, etc. ALL pay ROAD TAXES for gasoline (Highest in the country here in PA)

Non-tax, non-ethicanol gasoline should be REQUIRED at all gas stations for these purposes. FAIR TAXES before NEW TAXES.

So let me get this straight, you are saying you’re opposed to tax based on vehicle type and mileage driven annually instead of by the gallon as it is now?

How exactly do you suppose they would calculate the mileage you do on your lawn mower?

You didn't read and understand the post you quoted, did you. (That is not a question.)

Actually, grammatically it IS a question, ending it with “did you” makes it so.

But yes I DID read it and understand it. The part DiskDoctr didn’t mention explicitly but would obviously be included in his list would be things like ATVks, UTV’s, dirt bikes, boats and PWC’s. All of which consume ‘road tax’ bearing fuels and which no tax could be calculated using a ‘mileage driven’ type of taxation.

My ‘lawn mower’ has a 43hp Diesel engine that burns a fair amount of fuel travelling around on the public road system, it’s only fair that I pay my share of road taxes isn’t it?
badsix
Explorer
Dec 04, 2017
Staters came into our local county fair and went on a day long ticket writing party with all the ranchers.
Jay D.
Jarlaxle
Explorer II
Dec 03, 2017
JaxDad wrote:
DiskDoctr wrote:
Lawn tractors, chainsaws, generators, water pumps, tractors, etc. ALL pay ROAD TAXES for gasoline (Highest in the country here in PA)

Non-tax, non-ethicanol gasoline should be REQUIRED at all gas stations for these purposes. FAIR TAXES before NEW TAXES.

So let me get this straight, you are saying you’re opposed to tax based on vehicle type and mileage driven annually instead of by the gallon as it is now?

How exactly do you suppose they would calculate the mileage you do on your lawn mower?

You didn't read and understand the post you quoted, did you. (That is not a question.)
Jarlaxle
Explorer II
Dec 03, 2017
GeorgeNJ wrote:
I had driven heavy trucks for years throughout north Jersey, TT's, roll offs, concrete mixers, etc. Only once was I ever stopped & checked, it happened at the exit of a stone quarry. I had never seen it before or since. Two guys in cop like uniforms with IRS insignias & a marked SUV waved me to stop, opened my tank and stuck a hollow clear glass tube to pull up fuel to look for color. They thanked me and I was on my way. I was driving for a huge corporation who would be the last ones to try such shenanigans, too. I would tend to think the little guys and small diesel vehicle owners would be the most likely ones to try to temp fate with running dyed fuel.

I know it's easy to do it if you wanted to, there are off road fuel pumps around here. Years ago I saw someone filling up his Mercedes diesel powered car at it, I don't know if he knew it or not, but now you can't self help due to newer pumps that need the attendants card to start them.

Wonder what they do if they CAN'T dip the tanks? My last F-350 (converted from gas power) still had the anti-siphon screens in place. My work truck has a metal screen about 3" inside the filler cap---unless the tank is full to the top, dipping it would be impossible.

Having said that: in close to 20 years of driving diesels, I have NEVER been checked.
Jarlaxle
Explorer II
Dec 03, 2017
Kenz71 wrote:
How about having a separate tank for the generator then run reefer fuel in the generator?

No different than a semi trailer's reefer...100% legal.
Ralph_Cramden
Explorer II
Dec 03, 2017
DiskDoctr wrote:
SDcampowneroperator wrote:
So if you have a broken taillight, or any infraction they can substantiate, they can.

Uhm...NO!

Please cite where obtaining permission to drive requires permanent waiving of 4th Amendment Rights.

Read up on the PA Supreme Courts ruling back around 2013/14 regarding "probable cause" in relation to searches of vehicles. "Probable cause" falls under a very broad definition.

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