Revenge?

[Deb_and_Ed_M]

After saying that I usually shrug off annoyances in campgrounds - I must confess: I DID get revenge, earlier this spring (wicked grin)

I had gone to a State Park who was honoring a "Dark Skies" week. Several of us were going to take night photos from a small bluff overlooking Lake Michigan. When we first arrived, there was only one other camper in the whole park; then a dozen Frat boys showed up and started unloading tents and cases of beer. They had the whole dang mile-long park to set up - so where did they go? Right next to us - only they set their tents up on the small bluff - the one with the "not a camping space" sign. Ugh.

Fortunately, it was cold, so they must have gone to town and had dinner and lots of alcohol... meanwhile, we took a lot of really incredible photos. They showed back up, noisy, and very drunk, about 10:30, and proceeded to build a big roaring fire. While the winds off the lake kept the smoke away from our shots - the ambient light became a problem, so we all went to bed by 11. And then got to listen to them laughing/talking until the wee hours of the morning.

The next morning, we photogs arose around 6 AM, cranky from lack of sleep.... my friend started it. Yelled over to me "Deb, you like Metallica, right? How about THIS tune?" and had it blaring from his car. Well, I DON'T like Metallica, but it was hilarious. I had resorted to sleeping in my Dodge Caravan, and every time the back hatch opens or closes, it beeps a warning; and when I lock the car, it beeps an acknowledgement. You just can't believe how many times I needed to get in and out of my car....LOL! Another friend had to yell and tell us how cold it was in the vault toilet... you get the gist. (I would NEVER have done this, if we weren't the only ones in that park). Finally, as the Frat boys were starting to crawl out of bed around 10 AM (yes, we made noise for 4 hours) - we decided to go back home.

Someone please tell me I'm not the only camper who ever got revenge? 🙂

[Milt]

DEB and ED M
I don't want to hijack the thread from subject, but was wondering what park it was. And do they do this each year. My son is into watching the nighttime sky with a telescope.
There is a darksky park near the bridge, but there's no camping there.
Milt

[Crowe]

You are welcome,Collie, but about that jammies comment... :B

[colliehauler]

am1958 wrote:
Collie:

My post was directed at no-one in particular so you are off that hook... 😉

In your situation why did you let the late night fools carry on "unmolested"... You could have stood up, walked over in yer jammies and told them it was time to party on under "quiet rules". The fact you did nothing gave them tacit permission to continue. It might surprise you to know that most people, when confronted with their misbehavior, will make a good effort to comply with your request because there is usually one in the group that is only really "going along" and will become the conscience of the group.

The fact you did nothing granted tacit permission to the "seekers of revenge" because you had done nothing, (they too were in the wrong for not standing up but that's a bit irrelevant now).

So, to check the score:-

1. The original offenders went 1 for 1 - They had a good time at night and a bad time in the morning.

2. The "revengers" went 1 for 1 - they had a bad time at night and fun in the morning.

3. You went 0 for 2 - you had a bad night and a bad morning... You tell me who won by you being acquiescent.

But it get's worse. You have then passed on two groups of fools to the rest of us when, had you stood up for yourself you might have saved us all the grief...

As a last point... My dad taught me something too... He taught me that the meek shall inherit the earth... But only about six foot of it...

How do you know I didn't confront both rude parties? A little presumptuous on your part. Both were older people who should have know better.

I don't sleep in jammies.:E

[colliehauler]

Crowe wrote:
Learn and understand history or repeat it's failures.

I fully understand history, thank you so you really don't need to condescend. My point is very simple-is losing a few hours sleep worth getting injured or worse by the offending party? One needs to be able to read the situation and decide if any consequences are worth it. Tit for tat can get out of control very quickly and easily. Should we stand up to bullies when we can? Absolutely. Should we fight each and every battle as if it's life threatening? Absolutely not. Someone being loud at night at night is not trampling all over someone-far from it. Disrespectful-yes indeed. Trampling, no. I'm not going to tell you you're wrong as there is no right or wrong here and it is not black and white-it's mostly shades of gray. If you want to practice your self-righteous indignation when someone does something you feel "tramples on you", feel free. You can even get in their face telling them you won't be walked on if it makes you feel better. Most of us choose to pick our battles and if we can win a small skirmish by fighting fire with fire then more power to us. Those that walk away aren't weak but possibly smarter than we are. If I allowed every small transgression into my "space" to make me feel "trampled on" I would never be able to get up off the ground.

Thanks Crowe you said it so much more eloquently then I.

[Crowe]

Learn and understand history or repeat it's failures.

I fully understand history, thank you so you really don't need to condescend. My point is very simple-is losing a few hours sleep worth getting injured or worse by the offending party? One needs to be able to read the situation and decide if any consequences are worth it. Tit for tat can get out of control very quickly and easily. Should we stand up to bullies when we can? Absolutely. Should we fight each and every battle as if it's life threatening? Absolutely not. Someone being loud at night at night is not trampling all over someone-far from it. Disrespectful-yes indeed. Trampling, no. I'm not going to tell you you're wrong as there is no right or wrong here and it is not black and white-it's mostly shades of gray. If you want to practice your self-righteous indignation when someone does something you feel "tramples on you", feel free. You can even get in their face telling them you won't be walked on if it makes you feel better. Most of us choose to pick our battles and if we can win a small skirmish by fighting fire with fire then more power to us. Those that walk away aren't weak but possibly smarter than we are. If I allowed every small transgression into my "space" to make me feel "trampled on" I would never be able to get up off the ground.

[am1958]

Mabynack:

It just takes one group to ruin it for everyone.

My point exactly... When people sit cowering to avoid an "awkward situation" rather than standing up for themselves they "ruin it for everyone" else that has to meet the insufferable prigs in the future.

It's funny, but the people who most often complain about the erosion of standards and civility are the ones that turn away when something really should be done.

Crowe:

I agree about 99% of the time. The 1% is if that "revenge" makes a situation confrontational.

Firstly, since you quoted me, I feel the need to point out that I have not suggested revenge as a solution but rather making a simple request to the "offenders" that they continue to enjoy their life but simply at a lower decibel level.

That aside, I'm at a loss trying to understand how, with 6+ billion people on the planet, anyone can seriously think they can weave their way through life without "confrontation". Confrontation is what keeps those who may not respect other people somewhat "in check". The concept comes in big and small versions. Chamberlain signed a sexy little pact with Adolph H in the late 30's in an attempt to avoid confrontation. His weakness allowed WWII to start. Like it or not Obama just gave a somewhat nutty nation a clear and quick path to a nuclear weapon. How will that end? We could look back to Chamberlain to get a clue...

Learn and understand history or repeat it's failures.

The "small version":-

Let people walk all over you and they will bring an entire army of their friends to trample on your life both camping and at home. I'm not big on the "I have rights" whine we hear all too much nowadays, but there are some I demand. One of them is just the slightest modicum of respect - the same modicum I grant everyone until they prove it was undeserved.

I have a funny feeling I'm going to be told how wrong I am... I have a feeling the person informing of such lists "knitting yoghurt" as one of their interests on job applications... 😉

[Crowe]

But it get's worse. You have then passed on two groups of fools to the rest of us when, had you stood up for yourself you might have saved us all the grief...

I agree about 99% of the time. The 1% is if that "revenge" makes a situation confrontational.

[mabynack]

I've left several campgrounds due to trouble makers. I've fantasized about getting revenge, but have never done it. Once we had set up our tent in California and some boy scouts were camping near us. They started throwing rocks at our lanterns trying to break them. The leader was drunk and egging them on.

Another trip to the same state park we had the frat boys show up. They set up a stereo so they could hear their music when they played Frisbee in an open field nearby. I asked them to turn it down and they told me they had a right to play the music as loud as they wanted. Apparently no one had ever explained that other people have rights, too.

It just takes one group to ruin it for everyone.

[korbe]

am1958 wrote:
To all you people who wish to "stand above" the people who are behaving inconsiderately:

You are major contributors to the problem. Every time you allow these people to "get away" with their behavior you are teaching them that the behavior is acceptable. While it might be ok if you were always stuck next to the offenders and therefore the only ones who have to be affected by them this isn't the case. You will never see them again but you pass them on to the rest of us which makes you equal to the very people you are pretending to be "better than"...

I see it a bit differently. Yes, the direct approach of saying "hi, and BTW, could you please keep the noise down" does seem to me to be the best way of handling the situation. But the early morning revenge to me is more of a "major contributors to the problem" since the frat boys may not even see the correlation for the revenge and could just think all people camping act this way. IMHO

[JohnG3]

am1958 wrote:
Collie:

My post was directed at no-one in particular so you are off that hook... 😉

In your situation why did you let the late night fools carry on "unmolested"... You could have stood up, walked over in yer jammies and told them it was time to party on under "quiet rules". The fact you did nothing gave them tacit permission to continue. It might surprise you to know that most people, when confronted with their misbehavior, will make a good effort to comply with your request because there is usually one in the group that is only really "going along" and will become the conscience of the group.

The fact you did nothing granted tacit permission to the "seekers of revenge" because you had done nothing, (they too were in the wrong for not standing up but that's a bit irrelevant now).

So, to check the score:-

1. The original offenders went 1 for 1 - They had a good time at night and a bad time in the morning.

2. The "revengers" went 1 for 1 - they had a bad time at night and fun in the morning.

3. You went 0 for 2 - you had a bad night and a bad morning... You tell me who won by you being acquiescent.

But it get's worse. You have then passed on two groups of fools to the rest of us when, had you stood up for yourself you might have saved us all the grief...

As a last point... My dad taught me something too... He taught me that the meek shall inherit the earth... But only about six foot of it...

Exactly right.

[am1958]

Collie:

My post was directed at no-one in particular so you are off that hook... 😉

In your situation why did you let the late night fools carry on "unmolested"... You could have stood up, walked over in yer jammies and told them it was time to party on under "quiet rules". The fact you did nothing gave them tacit permission to continue. It might surprise you to know that most people, when confronted with their misbehavior, will make a good effort to comply with your request because there is usually one in the group that is only really "going along" and will become the conscience of the group.

The fact you did nothing granted tacit permission to the "seekers of revenge" because you had done nothing, (they too were in the wrong for not standing up but that's a bit irrelevant now).

So, to check the score:-

1. The original offenders went 1 for 1 - They had a good time at night and a bad time in the morning.

2. The "revengers" went 1 for 1 - they had a bad time at night and fun in the morning.

3. You went 0 for 2 - you had a bad night and a bad morning... You tell me who won by you being acquiescent.

But it get's worse. You have then passed on two groups of fools to the rest of us when, had you stood up for yourself you might have saved us all the grief...

As a last point... My dad taught me something too... He taught me that the meek shall inherit the earth... But only about six foot of it...

[kellertx5er]

One of my favorite sayings is "a man doesn't know how worthless (rude, incompetent, stupid, etc) he is unless someone tells him."

[colliehauler]

am1958 wrote:
To all you people who wish to "stand above" the people who are behaving inconsiderately:

You are major contributors to the problem. Every time you allow these people to "get away" with their behavior you are teaching them that the behavior is acceptable. While it might be ok if you were always stuck next to the offenders and therefore the only ones who have to be affected by them this isn't the case. You will never see them again but you pass them on to the rest of us which makes you equal to the very people you are pretending to be "better than"...

I don't know if your post is directed at me. I have been caught between two fools before, one that kept me up late from excess noise and another that retaliated the next morning with excess noise of his own. I was in the crossfire, should I retaliate against both the fools playing childish games? My Dad taught me at a early age two wrongs don't make a right.

Like I said in another post if you and the offender are the only people in the campground, have at it.

[Wishbone51]

I have one moment that I'm not too proud of, but it all worked out in the end.

I was camping at a race track (I race karts) and there was this really fancy race trailer next to me with teenagers playing guitar-hero quite loudly late at night. It was 1am and still going strong. The driver's meeting is at 6am, and I really needed my sleep.

I started thinking about unplugging their generator and running away. I finally worked up the courage to do it and actually had the cord in my hand when they shut down for the night. 🙂