RV Fuel Issues & Prices - Post 'Em Here!

[Dick_A]

All other fuel threads will be automatically deleted. 🙂

[DelCamper]

Fizziwig

Food prices are rising too. Keep printing lots of money and watch prices go up.

[DelCamper]

Fezziwig

Well the lack of refineries is old news dating pre economic slump. It was for the most part a post Katrina thing where margins were as much as $40 bbl for a while. The US has reduced it's oil consumption by 3 million bbls a day from 20 million to 17 million. Refineries have closed (many for good) because of this. Margins were negative (finished product having a value less then the cost of crude and refining) for quite some time.

If you want to see the nature of the industry look at Valero (VLO) stock. Valero is a refining company (Downstream is the industry term) having no oil wells. It has sold off about 10% of it's refining capacity since the economic slump. Refining is so lucrative that Sunoco is going out of the refining business and concentrating on marketing (gas stations).

Watching oil usage in the US is like watching a ECG on a heart patient.

I put 30 years in the refining industry and seen the up's and downs.

The money in oil is in crude.

[DelCamper]

Camping Hoosers

There are too many oil refineries right now. Oil demand has dropped 3 million bbls/day from 20 million to 17 million bbls/day. The high cost of oil is not in refining but in the cost of crude oil. Refining had a very short run of very good margins for almost a decade and many said "lets build more". Well it takes five years to build a nice size refinery and two more to work out the bugs. We would be left with even more refineries shut down. Currently the cost of refining is about 13 cents per gallon at present. I spent 30 years in one. It costs 10 cents a gallon just to break even without any buffer for a major repair or capital for environmental equipment. The long term prospects are so poor that Sunoco a downstream oil company (Refining and Marketing) is going out of the refining business. For a year the margins were negative.

Oh don't believe for a minuet that the "world economy" is driving these prices up now. International shipping is down 50% in the last year (Baltic Dry Index). The Europeans have cut demand. This rise in prices is speculators with huge money to pump and dump prices and way too many US Dollars created. Only a world wide falling economy (with falling demand) has tempered the rise. Oh, China the Asian giant is feeling the pinch too.

[DelCamper]

Within a decade natural gas will displace a significant amount of diesel/gasoline.

Gasoline is beyond simple supply/demand for it's pricing regardless how much is being used in the developing world. The ever increasing supply of dollars chase every barrel of oil. It's illogical to expect a decrease in oil cost when the increase in money supply is so dramatic. It's illogical to expect a decrease in oil cost when speculators using banks hedge funds indirectly supplied by the Federal Reserve through the Federal Government can bid up the price with the sheer volume of bidding with de-facto government insured money. The only thing dropping in price are homes and wages.

[doublenot7]

Fezziwig wrote:
The USA has reduced oil consumption and increased oil production and STILL prices go up! That disproves the theory that we could "drill baby drill" to cut gas prices.

Not really: US consumption is down but world consumption is drastically on the rise. The oil drilled in the US is not solely sold in the US, we export oil! Oil is sold on the world market.

Raising taxes is not the answer, any tax raise will just result in your gas prices raised the appropriate amount to absorb that loss.

IMHO the fix is too open more drilling (Drill Baby Drill!), dump the speculators, restrict domestic oil to domestic sale only. We can produce more but unless we flood the world market it won't be enough. Many other countries are just now in their industrialization periods. This will only get worse.

[tomman58]

bid_time wrote:

AO_hitech wrote:

bid_time wrote:
No !!- It's not unfortunate at all. It's really quite fortunate...

If you don't mind being part of the problem...

You wouldn't recognize the devil if you were staring him in the face. I merely read the tea leaves and play my hunches. This one was easy to foresee.

Your response about Cap gains taken make that Obama tax 27.5%on futures. Thanks for the clarification.

[AO_hitech]

bid_time wrote:
You wouldn't recognize the devil if you were staring him in the face. I merely read the tea leaves and play my hunches. This one was easy to foresee.

Who said I didn't see the price increase coming? Speculators are a huge part of the problem. Those that don't care that they are part of the problem will continue. But that has nothing to do with me or the devil, if you believe in such a thing...

[bid_time]

AO_hitech wrote:

bid_time wrote:
No !!- It's not unfortunate at all. It's really quite fortunate...

If you don't mind being part of the problem...

You wouldn't recognize the devil if you were staring him in the face. I merely read the tea leaves and play my hunches. This one was easy to foresee.

[AO_hitech]

bid_time wrote:
No !!- It's not unfortunate at all. It's really quite fortunate...

If you don't mind being part of the problem...

[bid_time]

AO_hitech wrote:

bid_time wrote:

mudmaker wrote:
Crude oil speculators beware, there is a huge target on your back.

Instead of complaining, why don't you just buy Oil futures? You seem to think it's a quick get rich scheme.

That target has been on my back for a long, long time. Nothing has changed, buying oil futures is still legal, and my 401-K is looking better now. Anyone that couldn't see this coming three years ago must of been blinded by all that Hope.

Buying oil futures to offset the inflated price would be great if one can afford it. However, many, myself included, cannot afford to do that. I have to get to work...

Speculators are the major problem. If that includes anyone here, well, unfortunatuly that makes you part of the problem.

Oh No !!- It's not unfortunate at all. It's really quite fortunate, "Unfortunate" would be if someone changed course to make the price go down. For at least the next two weeks I'm betting they won't. After that I'll have to re-evaluate.

[AO_hitech]

bid_time wrote:

mudmaker wrote:
Crude oil speculators beware, there is a huge target on your back.

Instead of complaining, why don't you just buy Oil futures? You seem to think it's a quick get rich scheme.

That target has been on my back for a long, long time. Nothing has changed, buying oil futures is still legal, and my 401-K is looking better now. Anyone that couldn't see this coming three years ago must of been blinded by all that Hope.

Buying oil futures to offset the inflated price would be great if one can afford it. However, many, myself included, cannot afford to do that. I have to get to work...

Speculators are the major problem. If that includes anyone here, well, unfortunatuly that makes you part of the problem.

[bid_time]

tomman58 wrote:

bid_time wrote:

mudmaker wrote:
Crude oil speculators beware, there is a huge target on your back.

Instead of complaining, why don't you just buy Oil futures? You seem to think it's a quick get rich scheme.

That target has been on my back for a long, long time. Nothing has changed, buying oil futures is still legal, and my 401-K is looking better now. Anyone that couldn't see this coming three years ago must of been blinded by all that Hope.

Actually it was about 10 years ago when oil became a business of government. I agree with Obama that we need to put a tax on commodity orofits at about 12.5% or more. This would begin to bring the prices backs in line. This is "oh no not a tax" even though it affects every single American and would only apply to some.

It's already taxed at 15%, it's a capital gains. And for some, like me, when it's in a IRA, it's taxed as regular income. So you and Obama seem to not know what you're talking about. Either that or you're just trying to spin it so it makes a good sound bite, but in reality has no basis in fact. That's usually what Obama does.

[DelCamper]

Here is a related question. At what point above $3.50 / gallon before you reduce your trips and at what point does the RV stay parked?

[SRT]

Gasoline prices around here just bumped up again. Most stations went from $3.67 to $3.73. If this keeps up prices will be over $4.00 by the end of April.:E

[SRT]

A note to those complaining about the speculators running up the price of crude oil. Please remember that oil is priced in dollars. Print more dollars, the value of the dollar decreases, the price of goods go up. Yes, speculators also helping to increase the cost of oil.

Also remember that part of the high cost of fuel in Europe are taxes. Vat, excise, sales, etc.. These high taxes help pay for their "free" medical care.

JM2¢W......:B