RV Fuel Issues & Prices - Post 'Em Here!

[Dick_A]

All other fuel threads will be automatically deleted. 🙂

[Bumpyroad]

I believe that the discussion concerned shutting down of refineries in the NE as they could not get oil moved from Texas there which would be at a lower price than the imported oil they had to process and the Jones Act prevented foreign oil tankers from moving it there. the same thing happened during the gulf spill as I remember foreign ships wanted to help move the oil and clean it up and couldn't because of this.
bumpy

[DelCamper]

It's certainly not a main problem. The price of crude rising from $70 a bbl to $107 a bbl is a worldwide price. Whatever the Jones act is supposed to do regarding US shipping I have never seen a US crewed ship brining in crude oil. We had a defection of some com-block sailor in the mid 1980s (that was funny, he jumped ship and walked in wet to a dock office stating,"America free, I want free"). We had a South Korean crewed ship who's sailors refused to work because a Chinese (Not the Peoples Republic) ship was there too. Our people looked at them like it was the old Star Trek episode (the back and white painted people) that hated each other. Had another ship all foreign (Greece I think) where the captain gambled away the crews pay so they refused to work.

Never once ever heard mention at any meeting not being able to get crude in except when one ship was in transit from Iraq when we cut them off at war #1. We took the crude and held the money in escrow we were told. we made World News Tonight on ABC for that one. Friends worked at neighboring refineries. Never heard of such a thing, ever.

Maybe they re-flag the vessel prior to entering US waters but they are not US Staffed for sure.

Speculators are using Other Peoples Money complements of the banks driving the worldwide price up.

[Bumpyroad]

just heard on the radio a discussion on oil transportation issues and one person mentioned that one of the main problems with not being able to get oil to certain refineries was the "Jones Act". also interfered with the clean up of the gulf.
why hasn't that been mentioned here in the 30 brazillion pages of oil issue comments?
bumpy

[tomman58]

Dick A wrote:

tomman58 wrote:
Del I was beginning to think no one ever got to see my posts on this site. Seems the moderator is an oil guy or a Texan LOL as the last two or three have been removed primarily because I commented on their mentality.
To bad partiality on this board has turned to censorship!

I am not a Texan (great folks :)) or involved with the oil industry in any way. Forum rules do not allow posts where political parties or names are mentioned. We also do not allow pure propaganda, non factual, or flaming posts. Oh, and just for the record, censorship is most generally a government function. 🙂

Yeah right! (wink,wink nudge nudge) now go back and explain the posts I commented to.

[Dick_A]

tomman58 wrote:
Del I was beginning to think no one ever got to see my posts on this site. Seems the moderator is an oil guy or a Texan LOL as the last two or three have been removed primarily because I commented on their mentality.
To bad partiality on this board has turned to censorship!

I am not a Texan (great folks :)) or involved with the oil industry in any way. Forum rules do not allow posts where political parties or names are mentioned. We also do not allow pure propaganda, non factual, or flaming posts. Oh, and just for the record, censorship is most generally a government function. 🙂

[DelCamper]

tomman58

I'm not a Texan but I'm an oil guy myself having put in almost 30 years in Oil Refining. I retired as a Power Plant Supervisor but attended all the meetings with the process unit, logistics and maintenance people for decades. I have a pretty good understanding of economics relating to Refining (known as downstream in our terminology). Upstream which is oil wells (called E&P Exploration and Production) is not my area. I do know that 90% of crude oil is nationalized and we have all had discussions at work with pretty knowledgable people regarding the yo-yo of oil pricing. It seems to point to speculators playing with huge sums of money that often moves the price by the sheer volume of trading. It appears to be ripe with what might be legal but surely is unethical. What they are doing was not legal a decade and a half ago.

Well just my two bits. Keep on writing buddy and I'll keep reading.

[tomman58]

Del I was beginning to think no one ever got to see my posts on this site. Seems the moderator is an oil guy or a Texan LOL as the last two or three have been removed primarily because I commented on their mentality.
To bad partiality on this board has turned to censorship!

[DelCamper]

tomman58

Your not going to see cheap gas regardless. The speculators managing bank hedge funds have huge sums of money to bid up the price complements of virtually unlimited funding from the Federal Reserve. The price of oil is beyond simple "supply and demand" and did not so radically spike before the demise of Glass-Stegall in 1999 which put the banks in the stock / hedge fund investing business.

Brazil powers their cars with a high percentage of moonshine.

[doublenot7]

Is passive-aggressiveness 110% requirement for a certain brand of people? I swear it must be.

You like graphs and numbers, eh? Certainly none of those have ever been adjusted to provide a different outcome? All the graphs and charts were right on over at Enron, FannieMae, etc... also.

But let's just take them at face value for moment: Look at your own first chart and look all the way at the bottom. Check out those offshore numbers, a bit low aren't they? Looks like a decline to me. This is because these drilling sites are controlled by government leases, which have been reduced and restricted by ridiculous red tape. This is again why we have lost some of the rigs and they have moved overseas. When they were shut down do have any idea what it cost to operate one of those rigs per day, even if not in production? We are talking the better part of $500,000 a day! They cannot afford to sit and idle.

Now let's look at your second chart: Oh look those numbers are up, how can that be? Exploration and production has moved to private land and oil/gas rights. This circumvents Big Brother and you don't have to beg permission from the government. This is the oil companies reaction to having their federal leases pulled out from under their feet.

Now in my error, I should have been clear to cite that off shore production is waning. That is what we tend to see here more so by default that is what I was referring to.

So again as to the facts; government has strangled off O&G leases and the result is tens of thousands of offshore and related workers out of work for years now. I see these people and I talk to them, they are not graphs, stats, or ignorance.

Drill, baby, drill! Is still part of the solution. World usage is up and will continue to rise. Cost is offset by supply.

Feel free to include some further passive aggressive rhetoric, I don't see much purpose in discussing this with you further. Regardless, our fuel costs will continue to climb.

[Fezziwig]

The facts are published by the DOE at their Energy Information Administration website.

I looked at the facts and figures, at the graphs and spreadsheets, and they say increased production. I took screenshots, but have no way to post them on this forum.

You can look for yourself here:

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS1&f=A
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_crd_crpdn_adc_mbbl_a.htm

[doublenot7]

cekkk wrote:
down 35% under Obama, who is taking credit for exploration and production on private lands he is relatively unable to interfere with.

This is very true. I have seen many assignments personally in procuring private land for Oil & Gas exploration and production in the last few years. This was quite a different trend from previous.

Argue what you like, you cannot change the market equation of supply and demand. The demand is not just our demand now, it is the world's demand. The game is changing.

[doublenot7]

Fezziwig wrote:

But Obama opened up a whole lot of drilling the last couple years, and gas prices STILL go up! And that in spite of decreased USA consumption.

You don't really believe that do you? We have less drilling it is a fact. A large part of my business is related to Oil & Gas, so I see it daily. There is less drilling, rigs have left and gone overseas, and lots of drillers, tool pushers, deck hands, etc... have not worked in years now.

More drilling you say; well I will inform them all of that good news.

[Fezziwig]

Everything you want to know is at www.eia.gov.

I've carefully researched this stuff before, dug the data out of the spreadsheets, formatted, and printed it here. But it was unappreciated and scorned. So go educate yourself.

[cekkk]

2%/20%. Straight out of the White House press room. Not true, of course. That figure is from 1940s information. The feds themselves state proven reserves ten to 20 times that number and the industry's numbers are higher. We have more than Saudi Arabia, and, as usual, the White House is telling us he's opened fields - hardly. Permitting under Clinton was pretty good, better under Bush - down 35% under Obama, who is taking credit for exploration and production on private lands he is relatively unable to interfere with.

SA said they'd increase production the other day and prices fell promptly. Oh well, it's all politics, and everyone will believe what they want to believe, facts be darned.

[DelCamper]

Too many dollars chasing a (more or less) fixed supply is inflation defined. Here is the good news. Working people want to live in a million dollar home and it will happen. The bad news it's the home your presently in. Regardless what you do an EXTREMELY loose money policy will raise prices on everything. It's just starting with oil and food.

Of course we only produce 2% of the worlds oil. We don't drill for more. The reality is natural gas as a motor fuel will be the greatest contribution to lowering transportation costs in the next few decades. It's abundant, therefore cheap, environmentally friendly, can be employed as a fuel with existing traditional engine design and it's here. Unlike oil natural gas tends to be more difficult to transport worldwide requiring compressing and cooling the gas into a denser liquid. This physical property makes the natural gas recovered in the US more likely to be used within the US. It's rich deposits on the east coast are fortunately near large population centers where demand would be high. It's cost per BTU is a quarter of that for oil.