RV Mfg's Missing a new market segment

[fulltimedaniel]

After full timing for two years now and meeting and talking to hundreds of other fellow travelers one thing is apparent to me.

The RV Manufacturers are missing or unaware of a significant market segment that wants and buys RV's

I am talking about the many many people who travel together that are not married or a couple (of either or both sexes)that do not sleep together and need two bedrooms or at least two separate and private sleeping areas.

The overwhelming majority of trailers are designed for couples or for a family with children.

While this market segment isnt huge it is significant and growing. Some have dubbed it the Golden Girls...or Boys phenomena. There are an increasing number of non related older people living together and sharing expenses.

In my recent tour of about 5 Large RV dealers looking for such a trailer I got mostly dumb looks (a normal response at many dealers to any question) and rather condescending responses based on my marital status. And no trailers to look at.

It will be nice when the RV manufacturers wake up to good design, interiors that dont look like Liberaces Bedroom and more efficient and appealing designs...to say nothing of needed equipment like (gasp) shock absorbers on every trailer.

Instead we get over the top frothy designs that maximize TV viewing inside and out (a terrible idea that should be stamped out now)instead of true livability.

[MrWizard]

I will give the OP credit for his tenacity in defending his opinion
But that's all I can do
There are units available
If the market clamored for more, then more would be built

Every year sees new ideas, but if buyers don't jump on them, Mfg drop them
The sky deck? The slide out deck? The MH chassis with rear wheels that turn for ease of parking ?

How many alpine lite A Frame chalet pop ups where sold?

The market for two bedrooms for friends travelers is just not as large as he thinks
Family's , toy haulers, and couples, or singles make up the market
These friend travelers have to pick from what's available
And more choices will not become available until the dealers can not provide enough units, and this is not the present case

[bpounds]

One complication that I haven't seen mentioned (but it's a long thread and I might have missed it), is the issue of ownership and financing between a couple who are not legally connected. Most new RV's are financed, and I don't know if a bank would lend money to a pair of friends, but I am certain that I would not borrow money jointly with any friend. It is risky enough borrowing money with a spouse, as any divorced person will know. Even if paying cash, I would think hard before making a major purchase cooperatively.

This whole thread is rather silly IMO, but it's been fun watching.

[Walaby]

fulltimedaniel wrote:
As an older adult why is it so surprising that I would want a trailer with a real adult sized bed, closet space and maybe (gasp) even a nightstand? All of this without having to renovate a brand new trailer to make it happen. Further many bunkhouse models are just a bed up against a mere curtain... I really would like a place to stand up and put my pants on without being in the middle of the living area.

I know that's a lot's to ask but far less has been done by the RV Mfg's for far smaller buying segments.

Well, this comment, for one, would suggest that you wanted a new trailer. But, regardless, clearly there are options out there for two adults who want to share a trailer. The one posted at the top of page 10, for low 20's is a perfect example. Here's another one I just found within 2 mins of searching
Aspen Trail

So, it would appear, that, in fact, the RV industry is addressing and has addressed your expressed need. Now, maybe not at the same volume of choices, but that is to be expected. But, to say they are not addressing the need of two platonic adults who may want to enjoy camping together, is obviously incorrect.

Mike

[fulltimedaniel]

westernrvparkowner wrote:
The OP loves his statistics. Here are a few facts about the percentages of single men vs women in the Baby Boomer Generation. At ages 50-54, there are equal numbers of single men and single women. At ages 60-64, there are close to 2.3 single women to every single man. By ages 70-74, the ratio is 4 to 1.
This means that as the population of the baby boomers age, more and more single women make up his 33 percent. Sexist connotations aside, as the owner of a RV Park, I can say with reasonable certainty, that 70 year old single, divorced and widowed women do not comprise a significant portion of the RV market. Even if every one of those 70+ women wanted a platonic male companion to share an RV, these statistics tell us that only one in four would be able to successfully find one their own age.
The RV industry isn't the only industry that doesn't build for this elusive market. Go to any 55+ community and ask for homes with dual masters. Out of their 20 plus floorplans, there may be one and the on site realtors will tell you it isn't one of the more popular plans.
Hotels, cruise ships and most other lodging will offer two beds in a room, but you won't get separate quarters without renting two rooms or cabins. The OP's market is simply not significant enough to be considered in the marketing and business plans of most any business.

According to the PRB and the US Census as of 2014 there were 76.4 million baby boomers.

33 Per Cent of that is 25 Million 212 Thousand SINGLE Baby Boomers. Even divided by sex those are large numbers and a significant market.

Dividing them by sex may not be as instructive as it seems. I see many older women alone and with friends and I see tons of single men both with friends and alone. And as they age my guess is they will be looking to partner with a friend for many reasons to continue to RV. Therefore I see the aging increasing the likelihood of the trend NOT decreasing it.

Even if you allow for Percent of RV owners and those of advanced age not RV'ing (which I dispute) then you still have MILLIONS of potential customers.

As for your assumption that those that are older are not RV'ing...well the numbers are certainly lower, however I have met many single women in their 70's and 80's traveling together. One I met in Florida was near 90. She certainly didnt act or look it.(she was traveling with her friend in a Class C)

In any case your view from Montana may not be the best perch to see this trend from. But if you are in AZ, Texas, Florida, Baja and Southern Ca it's another matter.

[westernrvparkow]

The OP loves his statistics. Here are a few facts about the percentages of single men vs women in the Baby Boomer Generation. At ages 50-54, there are equal numbers of single men and single women. At ages 60-64, there are close to 2.3 single women to every single man. By ages 70-74, the ratio is 4 to 1.
This means that as the population of the baby boomers age, more and more single women make up his 33 percent. Sexist connotations aside, as the owner of a RV Park, I can say with reasonable certainty, that 70 year old single, divorced and widowed women do not comprise a significant portion of the RV market. Even if every one of those 70+ women wanted a platonic male companion to share an RV, these statistics tell us that only one in four would be able to successfully find one their own age.
The RV industry isn't the only industry that doesn't build for this elusive market. Go to any 55+ community and ask for homes with dual masters. Out of their 20 plus floorplans, there may be one and the on site realtors will tell you it isn't one of the more popular plans.
Hotels, cruise ships and most other lodging will offer two beds in a room, but you won't get separate quarters without renting two rooms or cabins. The OP's market is simply not significant enough to be considered in the marketing and business plans of most any business.

[fulltimedaniel]

One of the things about this thread that has baffled me is the mistaken impression that I was personally "looking" for a trailer like this and I can see why that mistaken impression got started with my comment about visiting Some RV dealers to see one.

I am not in the market for a new trailer. When I leave this one it will probably be to return overseas to live again.

But I felt it important that I defend the notion since I brought it up.

IF you go back and re read my original post CAREFULLY and completely you will see that it is posed as a rhetorical question. This was as I have said before based on the many conversations I have had with those that travel like I do with a friend.

We are certainly invisible to most of you because you automatically assume that we are married or at least a couple. This happens to us virtually everywhere. We are constantly correcting this when the opportunity is appropriate...mostly we just let it go.

So it is absolutely NO Surprise to me that most of you just cannot understand that possibly a good number of the folks you come in contact with are actually like me. You just dont realize it.

I could go on about how RV's could be built with interior "modules" so that standard floor plans could be customized at very little extra cost. And I could wax endlessly on the shortcoming of the RV industry that so many here seem to have boundless confidence in. But I will pass up that opportunity.

I think many posters confidence is misplaced and frankly naive. There are Few RV company executives that I have read interviews with or read articles about that strike me as the forward looking types. Mostly they are in a competing game of nothing more than copy cat designs and marketing and build technology scrambling for the same perceived market.

The dismal financial history of this industry, with many many bankruptcies, failed and shuttered companies and abandoned workers should not give one confidence that they are in any way capable of recognizing a trend out there in their own market.

When times are good the industry does well people have surplus income and buy recreational products as is the current case. But every good CEO knows your job is to plan 5,10 or 20 years out, you must be looking forward to slower growth bad financial times and constantly exploring new markets. This is the CEO's job.

I for one just rarely see this in the case of the CEO's of RV Manufacturing companies.

As an example it took the industry more than a few years to catch on to the "smaller is better" trend or downsizing. Belatedly you now find great trailers like the R POD and some other lesser types that cater to this important market segment. No doubt there were those saying at the time...oh that's just a niche market. Those godlike CEO's would know and do it if the market was real. Well it was real and they missed at least two years of great sales opportunity if not more because they were so slow to catch on.

[travelnutz]

I sure can see why the OP lives in a different world within his mind but so far from reality in the real world of RV ownership and using. We also have never yet in over 50 years of lots of RV'ing ever encountered anyone saying they wanted what the OP has suggested. Platonic so often becomes NON-platonic regardless of sexual identity! So many others part ways quickly. There goes so many of the platonic RV'ers and the possiblities just dwindle and dwindle.

Might the OP be the odd one out rather than the many hundreds of thousands of RV owners and users and the nearly entire RV manufacturer's? I'd put my money on it!

Lots of various RV's are made already that meet his wants so why is there any question or provoking still going on? YES, I have read and re-read his multiple posts on this thread several times and having been a several decade long vehicle engineering operation/business owner, I almost think the OP might be smoking some really potent good stuff to come up with the very pie in the sky lofty numbers he has displayed over and over!

Enough of this BS for me as there are so many real things and topics that should be addressed!

[fulltimedaniel]

RPreeb wrote:

fulltimedaniel wrote:
The 30 percent figure, which is actually 33 percent, came from the Population Reference Bureau using Census figures.

It's a real figure.

I stated the above clearly in one of my followup posts in this thread. Once again I wonder how carefully some read and understand what has been written.

My contention as I have stated numerous times is that Whatever percentage of Baby boomers RV can be extrapolated to this 33 percent figure and some of those will be in the "frinds" situation. This still amounts to hundreds of thousands of potential customers.

My second contention which seems to be conveniently ignored by some here is that the RV manufacturers with their dismal record of catching on to the new trend, design, process etc is probably behind the curve on this too.

Now it is curious to me why so many of the posters here seem to have this Godlike confidence in the RV industry? These are the same guys making outdated poorly constructed products that most of you love to complain about. What on earth gives you confidence that they are on to a new or at least rising trend?

So your defense of them here is at best baffling.

And finally I am still the only one who has provided any data to support my claims, yet they are still ignored and misstated.

At least I have a foundation of experience and numbers as a basis for my opinion.

From those figures you extrapolate hundreds of thousands of customers. Really? In other words, stating that 30% (or 33% if you prefer) is from census numbers (from what census, 2010? 7 years outdated?), you expect that will bring skeptics around to your side? Even though your subsequent contention is based on pure supposition without one iota of evidence to back it up? If there actually were hundreds of thousands of potential customers out there clamoring for these trailers, the RV industry would recognize it in a big way.

I read 3 RV forums regularly, and this is the FIRST time I've ever seen it mentioned. The only times I've ever read about anyone wanting separate bedrooms was to get separation from their kids due to different bedtimes or just to get relief from the noise and activity (and even that isn't a common issue). In those cases all they ask is just for one of the bedrooms to be closed off, not both.

I guess all I can say is that you haven't convinced me that the need is really there.

I think you attach far too much importance to my interest in your opinion. But I do appreciate your posts.

[RPreeb]

fulltimedaniel wrote:
The 30 percent figure, which is actually 33 percent, came from the Population Reference Bureau using Census figures.

It's a real figure.

I stated the above clearly in one of my followup posts in this thread. Once again I wonder how carefully some read and understand what has been written.

My contention as I have stated numerous times is that Whatever percentage of Baby boomers RV can be extrapolated to this 33 percent figure and some of those will be in the "frinds" situation. This still amounts to hundreds of thousands of potential customers.

My second contention which seems to be conveniently ignored by some here is that the RV manufacturers with their dismal record of catching on to the new trend, design, process etc is probably behind the curve on this too.

Now it is curious to me why so many of the posters here seem to have this Godlike confidence in the RV industry? These are the same guys making outdated poorly constructed products that most of you love to complain about. What on earth gives you confidence that they are on to a new or at least rising trend?

So your defense of them here is at best baffling.

And finally I am still the only one who has provided any data to support my claims, yet they are still ignored and misstated.

At least I have a foundation of experience and numbers as a basis for my opinion.

From those figures you extrapolate hundreds of thousands of customers. Really? In other words, stating that 30% (or 33% if you prefer) is from census numbers (from what census, 2010? 7 years outdated?), you expect that will bring skeptics around to your side? Even though your subsequent contention is based on pure supposition without one iota of evidence to back it up? If there actually were hundreds of thousands of potential customers out there clamoring for these trailers, the RV industry would recognize it in a big way.

I read 3 RV forums regularly, and this is the FIRST time I've ever seen it mentioned. The only times I've ever read about anyone wanting separate bedrooms was to get separation from their kids due to different bedtimes or just to get relief from the noise and activity (and even that isn't a common issue). In those cases all they ask is just for one of the bedrooms to be closed off, not both.

I guess all I can say is that you haven't convinced me that the need is really there.

[Walaby]

And only around $22K!!!

Problem solved at a reasonable price to boot.

Mike

[MrWizard]

Everything the OP wants
Except he wants it in a shorter length

[Merrykalia]

Wildwood TrailerI was looking for something this evening and stumbled upon this travel trailer.

[fulltimedaniel]

The 30 percent figure, which is actually 33 percent, came from the Population Reference Bureau using Census figures.

It's a real figure.

I stated the above clearly in one of my followup posts in this thread. Once again I wonder how carefully some read and understand what has been written.

My contention as I have stated numerous times is that Whatever percentage of Baby boomers RV can be extrapolated to this 33 percent figure and some of those will be in the "frinds" situation. This still amounts to hundreds of thousands of potential customers.

My second contention which seems to be conveniently ignored by some here is that the RV manufacturers with their dismal record of catching on to the new trend, design, process etc is probably behind the curve on this too.

Now it is curious to me why so many of the posters here seem to have this Godlike confidence in the RV industry? These are the same guys making outdated poorly constructed products that most of you love to complain about. What on earth gives you confidence that they are on to a new or at least rising trend?

So your defense of them here is at best baffling.

And finally I am still the only one who has provided any data to support my claims, yet they are still ignored and misstated.

At least I have a foundation of experience and numbers as a basis for my opinion.

[bpounds]

I suppose it is the same with houses. Most have one master bedroom, that is larger than the others.