Shower Skylight install Idea - Opinions wanted - Henry 887HS

[searcherrr]

I have a big issue right now with roof leaks on our 27ft E450 Class C.

Knowns:

• Apparently most of the previous roof patches have reached their life and are giving way to water.
• Apparently when there is a bad spot on the roof the thin under sheath of wood (not sure what its called) becomes wavy or bubbly under the EPDM rubber sheet
• Previous owner had a roof accident that looked to have affected "ALL" items on the roof: Skylights, a/c, luggage rail mounts in rear, antenna etc..
• I would say the roof was patched EVERYWHERE (20 or so spots) EVERYTHING goes down into the roof.
• We've already had to remount the a/c to flush the gasket right so it wouldn't leak "UNDER THE EPDM" which is what it was doing a while back
• Recently found 2 new leaks at shower skylight and rear luggage rack mount or where ladder goes into the roof

Ok, have done a lot lot lot lot of homework on all this before starting the project. Camper roof is tarped with a giant tarp till I can get it prepped and fixed up right.

I have decided on this product because it gets many 5 star reviews and claims LIFETIME 1 time FIX IT and you are DONE for GOOD, no biannual inspections of the roof for leaks etc.. no more roof work, just lay a new roof layer on and you are finished:

Henry Tropi Cool 887 HS - Formulated especially for RV EPDM roofs: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Henry-Tropi-Cool-4-75-Gal-887-White-100-Silicone-Roof-Coating-HE887HS073/205049553

***** SHOWER SKYLIGHT IDEA - SCREWLESS INSTALLATION *****
HERE'S WHERE I'D LIKE OPINIONS. To me, it is pretty counterintuitive to send SEVERAL (like 20 or more maybe) screws into and through the roof to mount the shower skylight.
I saw some ideas here:
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/23453365.cfm
and here:
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/21771654.cfm

What I'm thinking is since i'm going to prep, clean etc.. scrape of ALL old sealant patches EVERYWHERE there is a current LEAK and have decided to use the Henry 887 HS product, why not just use proper sealant and BUTYL tape to "mash seal down" the new Skylight flanged edges, and THEN USE NO SCREWS AT ALL....... THEN.... COME BACK BEHIND ALL THAT SEALED STUFF AND LAY THE ENTIRELY NEW ROOF LAYER OF HENRY 887 HS TROPI-COOL ROOF ACROSS THE ENTIRE camper roof, including the new shower skylight flange edges, such that the 887 HS new layer is covered over the BUTYL tape/sealant thereby sandwiching the shower skylight into place??????

I can't see why that wouldn't just stay PUT? Does anything thing the winds of going down the interstate would actually try to pull the shower skylight dome OFF after its sealed down so well under all that I've said???

I know that dicor and other things have been on the roof for YEARS and never moved much at all, if even 1mm, so I was thinking to avoid a whole bunch new screw holes... maybe this would work.

What ya'll think and what (if anyone knows or has opinion) do ya'll think of the Henry 887 HS product?

**Disclaimer: FYI - I know full well to avoid silicon products on RV's, big NO NO.. but the 887 HS product is different and specially formulated for EPDM roofs and even comes with special RV instructions.**

It is either this or we have to get rid of the camper, because I'm not coating the roof every year or every 6 months. Supposed to be enjoyable... not constant maintenance!!! lol (i know thats impossible, but at least on the roof part I'd like to set it and forget it).

[dms1]

How did the Henry 887HS TROPI-COOL work out?

[searcherrr]

Gdetrailer wrote:

Most if not ALL leaks come from the OUTSIDE EDGES. That is where the roofing meets the side wall and is pulled down over the wall.. There is a trim strip placed over the roofing on the side wall.. That trim strip has butyl rubber caulking under it. That caulking dries out, gets hard and cracks.. Once cracks form the water is wicked under the strip and finds its' way to the screws holding the strip on.. The water wicks past the screws into the wood under the siding..

Most people do not realize this and NEVER check or replace the caulking under this strip, EVER.

Perimeter leaks ARE where most leaks happen, not the roof in general.

Your "plan" does not take this into account at all.

Additionally your "plan" does not address another weakness, the corner side wall strips, they to have the same issue as the to side wall trim.. Those ALSO need to have the caulking replaced periodically..

"DUDE.. Where's my car?"

I have to say for a Senior Member that was a pretty big take down of a new user, but the truth is I appreciate your candor a great deal and while some of what you said has me in stitches hysterically, DUDE... I do have a basis for Reality... I know RV will always be work, but why fault me for trying to make the roof LESS WORK than it already is? Sure I don't believe I'll never have to deal with it again, but I can try to come close. I've already said that I'm fine with it "NOT WORKING" for the sake of experimentation and for others to feedback to. I'm cool with it. In the grand scheme of things even if I do this TWICE - SO WHAT.. it still doesn't come close to the cost of a new roof or a new camper.

I want to thank you greatly for making me aware of the edges where the EPDM is pulled over the sidewall edge... SO YOU SAY THERE IS SUPPOSED TO BE TRIM STRIPS OVER THAT 90 DEGREE EPDM ANGLE??? On our Class C there isn't any at all.. its just EPDM only. I wonder if the previous owner (when initially fixing the roof) just removed all that and didn't see fit to put it back on.

Do you have a LINK to what type of strips I should have there????

Just to be clear, then EPDM edge terminates downward and into the side wall 1 inch on the sides from the top of roof.

Not sure why you don't believe I will use the proper roof repair stuff.. I have Eternabond tape now, Butyl tape, Proper self-leveling sealant (standard rv roof kind - not Henry stuff).

I'd also like to thank ya for suggesting the washers with rubber on them and the screws with that on them as well. I still don't think I need the screws... sorry.. I mean no disrespect towards your obvious many more years of experience with RV's or to anyone elses.. but I asked initially about screwless installation "TO SEE IF ANYONE ELSE HAS TRIED IT and get the result" - If no one else has tried it, then that doesn't satisfy me that it can be said it won't work or will work. I'm not looking to waste time here at all.. I'm looking to formulate the best tactics based on collective responses.

Gdetrailer wrote:
Your "plan" does not take this into account at all.

Um.. yeah well... you wouldn't have known that it does. I've already taped off the side walls where the EPDM comes down and was going to coat it all once this big project starts. I just didn't know there was supposed to be a "trim strip" up there on that edge ... doesn't appear to be anything for it to mount to or previous screw holes.. just EPDM pulled over the edge.

Gdetrailer wrote:
Honestly, I would recommend that you sell your RV and rent an apartment so you don't have maintenance to deal with. RVs are not for you

LOL - This part cracked me up. If you only knew how far from the sh__ter we took this motorhome to begin with I dare say you'd have a lil higher of an opinion of me. The roof, engine bay and hot water heater are the only things that haven't been touched yet.

Thinking about the screws with the rubber washers. Hmm.. We'll see. I just don't buy it Gdetrailer... I'm sorry... between the butyl tape, Eternabond tape, sealant and the Henry topcoat "that adheres as well to everything it touches" I do not see that skylight moving even under all that windspeed... its a rounded dome held down at all edges. What I may do before topping off with the 887HS is take it out for a 70mph spin down the interstate with just the butyl, eternabond and sealant cured and see if it looks like its trying to budge off while in transit.

I realize most come on here for just help on how to fix it and be done with it, but I'm interested in experimenting. I know its more work, but I want to see what happens. Chances are high you are right GDETrailer.. I get that, but there's a change the other way too. If experimentation is stupid, then I'm guilty.:B

[Gdetrailer]

searcherrr wrote:
Thanks Gdetrailer.

If it doesn't sound as though I'm listening, I apologize. Just trying to be innovative. I do plan to take the advice of everyone here actually... As stated I will:

1. Use butyl tape for seal
2. Use approved skylight sealant for seal
3. Use Eternabond tape for top seal (going to get some at lunch)
4. As per at least 2 other people have said, I'm NOT going to use SCREWS. I'm going to take the chance on cost and labor and having to redo it myself for the sake of the community on here and elsewhere and report back how it goes. Between using the items in 1-3 in this post, I do not believe screws will be needed.
5. My own ending to all of it - I'm gonna top coat with Henry 887HS after all repairs are performed in the "recommended manner" - Recommended by ya'll and lots of others in other forums.

I know it may be a pipe dream, but I am looking for a solution that will allow me the freedom of not having to deal with my rv roof ever again barring physical modifications or accidents. The Henry 887HS product promises that and it promises Lifetime warranty. The key here is as someone mentioned herein, that the 887HS product is good for ponding, but not for sealing "holes" or damage to the roof... so again like in #5 above.. I will follow everyone's directions for sealing the roof RIGHT through tried and true procedures/materials and then basically use the 887HS product as a top coat to double protect my work.

You ARE NOT being "innovative".

Pipe dream, yes, absolutely, As long as you are dealing with a RV there WILL be roof maintenance. No matter how much you try to get out of work, it is the nature of the beast.. Your RV is constantly bending and moving while traveling, it does not keep a solid shape. There is no way you plan will work.

Most if not ALL leaks come from the OUTSIDE EDGES. That is where the roofing meets the side wall and is pulled down over the wall.. There is a trim strip placed over the roofing on the side wall.. That trim strip has butyl rubber caulking under it. That caulking dries out, gets hard and cracks.. Once cracks form the water is wicked under the strip and finds its' way to the screws holding the strip on.. The water wicks past the screws into the wood under the siding..

Most people do not realize this and NEVER check or replace the caulking under this strip, EVER.

Perimeter leaks ARE where most leaks happen, not the roof in general.

Your "plan" does not take this into account at all.

Additionally your "plan" does not address another weakness, the corner side wall strips, they to have the same issue as the to side wall trim.. Those ALSO need to have the caulking replaced periodically..

Honestly, I would recommend that you sell your RV and rent an apartment so you don't have maintenance to deal with. RVs are not for you.

[Gdetrailer]

searcherrr wrote:
Also... a quick note about me doing the screwless installation... say the new skylight comes with screw holes... instead of using SCREWS... I put SEALANT in those screw holes. Wiggle and press down... and the sealant comes up through the screw holes.. and once it dries... acts like "SEALANT SCREWS or DOWELS" of a sort that will "grip" the skylight flange by having sealed/dried through the flange screw mount holes. While I'm pretty confident about this idea working well, I won't know till I try it. 🙂

Honestly, I can't understand your disdain for screws.. But it doesn't surprise me that you are fool hardy to believe it will work..



Perhaps you should consider using BETTER screws like these..



Which are designed for steel roofing panels and have a built in rubber washer which creates a darn good seal.. I have used metal roof washers which are washers with the rubber seal that you can add to any screw, work very well and NO LEAKS around any of my roof items.

Much better than your glue only method to which I can't wait to see your cry for help posting about losing your skylight while traveling..

I would NOT recommend relying solely on GLUE to hold that skylight on, that skylight WILL experience wind speeds near hurricane force numbers. Driving say 65 mph and encountering a 20 mph head wind is like a 85 mph hurricane force wind speed..

On a two lane road (one lane each way) and you are driving 55 MPH and encounter a semi coming at you that vent will see 110 MPH windspeed and add in a 20MPH head wind you are now at 130 MPH wind!

If a manufacturer has ALREADY placed screw holes, one MUST consider that they put them there for a darned good reason..

And if you use the wrong glue it may not adhere well to the skylight plastic or the roofing material or even never dry at all.. One heck of a gamble that I would not be willing to take..

[searcherrr]

Also... a quick note about me doing the screwless installation... say the new skylight comes with screw holes... instead of using SCREWS... I put SEALANT in those screw holes. Wiggle and press down... and the sealant comes up through the screw holes.. and once it dries... acts like "SEALANT SCREWS or DOWELS" of a sort that will "grip" the skylight flange by having sealed/dried through the flange screw mount holes. While I'm pretty confident about this idea working well, I won't know till I try it. 🙂

[searcherrr]

westend wrote:

Reason why I want to coat the whole roof.... there are too many repair variables (spots) in play. It would be a lot less to worry about in the coming couple of years, if we could just coat over it again

Yes, that would be great but none of the roof coating products will guarantee against a through hole leaking. That's because coating the roof doesn't seal those areas. BTW, elastomeric roof coatings are primarily made for EPDM sheet (may be the same as your RV). Being "RV rated" is a drop in the bucket to the total EPDM market.

The exception to the "Miracle in a bucket" coating is bedliner and some shops are doing it right. Your EPDM sheet is removed and the spray on liner is applied. They guarantee it for life. It is very expensive.

I'd suggest hat you seal any through holes with Eternabond tape and then apply a coating that doesn't have any silicone. This will be the longest lasting maintenance to your roof.

westend - Yes, my roof is EPDM.
I think I'm following your directions correctly, by not trusting that the 887HS product will be "miracle in a bucket" because I'm not going to rely on it to seal holes, crevices, cracks, scrapes of the EPDM roof sheet... I'm going to do as ya'll have said to fix all that stuff first with the proper materials, then coat over the whole roof (since I already have the 887HS product and can't return it now) with the 887HS stuff. It isn't cheap either, but even at $250 for 5 gallons, its far cheaper than all the other complete redo options like new EPDM or the bedliner thing that you said...... which ultimately I'd really rather have, but the cost is just outrageously out of scope.

I really feel good about the time I've spent researching all this and talking to you guys and I feel I have a good plan, because just by following what ya'll have said alone the roof should hold water fine by itself... but I'm using the 887HS double up covering as a "CATCH ALL" ending, like a layer of clear coat on a car's paint job is a good analogy.

I will post photos and report back at some point. All of this happens within 7 days from now.

[searcherrr]

Thanks Gdetrailer.

If it doesn't sound as though I'm listening, I apologize. Just trying to be innovative. I do plan to take the advice of everyone here actually... As stated I will:

1. Use butyl tape for seal
2. Use approved skylight sealant for seal
3. Use Eternabond tape for top seal (going to get some at lunch)
4. As per at least 2 other people have said, I'm NOT going to use SCREWS. I'm going to take the chance on cost and labor and having to redo it myself for the sake of the community on here and elsewhere and report back how it goes. Between using the items in 1-3 in this post, I do not believe screws will be needed.
5. My own ending to all of it - I'm gonna top coat with Henry 887HS after all repairs are performed in the "recommended manner" - Recommended by ya'll and lots of others in other forums.

I know it may be a pipe dream, but I am looking for a solution that will allow me the freedom of not having to deal with my rv roof ever again barring physical modifications or accidents. The Henry 887HS product promises that and it promises Lifetime warranty. The key here is as someone mentioned herein, that the 887HS product is good for ponding, but not for sealing "holes" or damage to the roof... so again like in #5 above.. I will follow everyone's directions for sealing the roof RIGHT through tried and true procedures/materials and then basically use the 887HS product as a top coat to double protect my work.

[westend]

Reason why I want to coat the whole roof.... there are too many repair variables (spots) in play. It would be a lot less to worry about in the coming couple of years, if we could just coat over it again

Yes, that would be great but none of the roof coating products will guarantee against a through hole leaking. That's because coating the roof doesn't seal those areas. BTW, elastomeric roof coatings are primarily made for EPDM sheet (may be the same as your RV). Being "RV rated" is a drop in the bucket to the total EPDM market.

The exception to the "Miracle in a bucket" coating is bedliner and some shops are doing it right. Your EPDM sheet is removed and the spray on liner is applied. They guarantee it for life. It is very expensive.

I'd suggest hat you seal any through holes with Eternabond tape and then apply a coating that doesn't have any silicone. This will be the longest lasting maintenance to your roof.

[Gdetrailer]

searcherrr wrote:
I have been hard pressed to find an RV approved elastomeric roof coating. Any recommendations?

What is the thin layer of wood called that is right right below the fiberglass exterior sidewalls and below the epdm roof layer? And where can i get it?

Luan.. it is a thin "plywood" so to speak, three ply 3/16" thick (they are cheating on this now days, used to be sold as 1/4" thick), has one finished side and one non finished side. Typically used for sub floor underlayment in sticks and bricks.

Can be bought at Home Depot, Lowes or most any lumber store.

Typically sold in 4x8 ft sheets, some stores may have 4x4 ft pieces precut if you don't need the full sheet.

Glue and screw down.

Typically costs $10-$12 per 4x8 ft sheet.

As far as those elastomeric coatings go, they are junk. I tried "Cool Seal", it was nothing more than white water. Went down thin, takes at least four coats to even cover up the existing material and only lasted one year before it had worn off enough to see the original old roof material.

SAVE YOUR MONEY AND HARD WORK..

If your existing material is not riddled with pin holes consider patching with Eternabond tape, follow instructions on prep and placement and a 99.9% chance it will never let go.

Otherwise I would recommend buying new membrane and replace the entire roof membrane.

If you insist on ignoring the above advice, one last ditch effort several members on the forum have done is to have the roof coated with bedliner.. This is not an "approved" use from the bedliner manufacturers so don't expect them to warranty it..

Not cheap or quick either, takes considerable prep work to get it to stick.

For black bedliner you can paint over top with white paint..

As a hint, not all bedliner products in the stores are all that good.. The ones that slosh in the can are junk.. Goes on watery and doesn't cover well.

One of the better DIY bedliners I have found is from Harbor Freight, not runny and is thick, If you combine with a 20% coupon you can get it for about $35 per gallon. Two coats for best coverage then top with white paint.

[searcherrr]

Also, I looked at the roof issue more closely last night. It seems the "thin layer of wood" separating the fiberglass exterior walls or separating the epdm roof from the wood is what has decayed. At least in the shower skylight case, the wood was still firm and did not give way when I pushed on it with the drill bit on my drill. So, replacing the EPDM entirely would be overkill I think.

Reason why I want to coat the whole roof.... there are too many repair variables (spots) in play. It would be a lot less to worry about in the coming couple of years, if we could just coat over it again. I'm not up for a full EPDM removal project and I don't have a good place to do it at either. I realize if I use the Henry 887HS product that I will be stuck using that alone from this point forward (because the product literature does state it bonds to itself for future needs), but it doesn't bother me because I don't feel like we'll have this camper more than 10 more years, at which time I'll just pass along the info to the next owner.

I've spoken to Henry manufacturing on the phone and I'm going to trust the vendor and their lifetime warranty and just see how it goes.. I mean after all it does get 5 stars on Home Depot's site (unless all those reviews are fake)... and I will actually report back on here from time to time to let others know how it works out.

[searcherrr]

I have been hard pressed to find an RV approved elastomeric roof coating. Any recommendations?

What is the thin layer of wood called that is right right below the fiberglass exterior sidewalls and below the epdm roof layer? And where can i get it?

[westend]

westend - Why does everyone hate silicon for rv's/motorhomes? I mean, I know "all other silicon" products that are normal and not specified for rv's shouldn't be used, but this one is specially formulated for rv use. Just curious what the issues are and pitfalls or pros about silicon and RV's. Lastly though, i do plan to do what you said and use an approved sealant first to take care of holes/damages before covering over.

That roof coating contains silicone and is specified for EPDM roof coverings (among other surfaces). It's primary function is to protect the EPDM from UV degradation and to offer cooling because it's white.

Silicone is a great sealant when used in compression between two mating surfaces and not exposed to UV. Unfortunately, it also has drawbacks---the aforementioned UV degradation and, when cured, no other material will adhere to it, not even new silicone. You can test silicone's degrading by applying some to a surface and letting it sit outside. Within a couple of years it will start to lose it's bond and become worthless.

For your skylight and roof, I'd suggest to use materials that have been used by others with success--Butyl tape sealant, Dicor or other polymer sealants (no silicone), Eternabond tape, and screws with a flat washer or integral flange. If you have an EPDM roof with a white top layer, there is no need to coat it again but if you wish a shiny new white surface, I'd suggest to use an elastomeric roof coating.

Good luck with your repairs and have a great cruise!

[searcherrr]

What is the thin layer of wood called that is right right below the fiberglass exterior sidewalls and below the epdm roof layer? And where can i get it?

[searcherrr]

ANYBODY ELSE CARE TO COMMENT ON MY "SCREWLESS SKYLIGHT INSTALL IDEA" ??? I'D REALLY BE INTERESTED TO KNOW IF ANYONE ELSE HAS TRIED IT AND OR ANY FURTHER INPUT ON THE HENRY 887HS PRODUCT.

First of all I want to thank everyone for replying. I really appreciate it tremendously. I'll try to get some photos up to give perspective too.

What I didn't say is that this is a race to "USAGE". In the next 10 days, the whole family is jumping in our Class C and heading to a port to go on a cruise. The motorhome makes the most sense since we can alleviate getting a hotel the day before. Basically, I will be completing all of this before we leave.

OK - REPLIES:

path1 - I plan to use the BUTYL tape and instructed skylight sealant prior to installing the Henry product.

Homer - 7 skylights huh. You are the 2nd person to confirm a Dealer stated not to use screws, but recommended a "buffer" type strategy (as I see it) with a flashing or something else.
As far as the breakdown of the plastic in Florida... WOW. I'm pretty sure the one on my camper is the original, but I bet in Florida you have a lot of issue with salt air contributing. Either way, you are making me want to find a "UV Clearcoat" paint that I can use to protect the skylight, because I ordered the CLEAR one. Wife and I agreed we wanted "light inside the bathroom".
Anybody know where I can get some UV clearcoat paint that will adhere to the skylight cover?

westend - Why does everyone hate silicon for rv's/motorhomes? I mean, I know "all other silicon" products that are normal and not specified for rv's shouldn't be used, but this one is specially formulated for rv use. Just curious what the issues are and pitfalls or pros about silicon and RV's. Lastly though, i do plan to do what you said and use an approved sealant first to take care of holes/damages before covering over.

Dr Quick - I hear you, but we don't have the money or time to go that deep (removing the EPDM and replacing wood etc...). I am hoping when I do see underneath the shower skylight that its not too bad (just surface I'm hoping).


W4RLR - Thx, but I think I'm going to go to the trouble and guinea pig it for everyone and try "SCREWLESS" and I'll take photos for the group too. Going to test it out and let everyone know how it goes.