Thinking ahead re: back problems---UPDATE---

[D_E_Bishop]

See update on second page.

I have a great HMO but, a very cautious one that does a lot of very conservative procedures before sending a patient to a specialist . I have a problem with my back, it was explained to me by a Chiropractor and GP some years ago in this way; the disc between the L1 thru L5 vertebrae are dissolving and before the vertebrae fuse together, they are in what is called and unstable period. I am currently having problems just like when it was explained to me over 20 years ago and I have been to the Conservative Back Clinic. No one has ordered any x-rays and they really don't know what is happening.

Their solution is for me to do exercises to strengthen my core muscles. Good idea, I am taking Norco and it doesn't really mask the pain and they want me to twist and shout. Not happening.

A year ago I had 40 days of x-rays in that area and don't really want more but have resigned to having it done. My question centers around what if they find real severe damage and I have to have a spinal fusion operation done. I know we are all different but I like to drive about four to six hours in a day, 250 to 350 miles. I'm a little concerned. I love my Flexsteel captains seats and they usually help relieve any pain I have. It's just that this is really big time and I'm 74, overweight and somewhat out of shape due to three joint replacement in the last six years.

I've been looking at a replacement for our rig but this is causing second guessing. It's not so much the money, it's what if I can't drive my dream and have just bought something I really want, what if those thousands of dollars sit and rot like this one did while we were caregivers for my DMIL. What if the pain is still there?

The DW is sympathetic but says at least, "do what feels best, we'll be fine". The DDs say the same thing, the DGKs just want to know how long it will be before we can go camping again.

For the first time in my life, the questions are making ne nervous, the answers are just plain scaring the cr#p out of me. I've been in some tight places in my life and I've never been afraid before. Even when we had a very short life expediency if we were discovered, it was an adventure, this isn't. I've never had to have anyone help in anyway, sorry J. Lenon. Now I have to let guys and gals that are 50 or 60 years younger than I, open doors for me, help me out of a chair.

I just don't know how to accept this one.

Thanks for listening, I'm going to hobble in to the living room and kiss the DW. At least that never changes, she kisses back.

[John_S_]

I have four bad discs. I had a lapendectamoy where they removed some of my spine and then they opened up the nerve channels. Leg us still numb but severe pain is gone. Try to to lift or bend. No flip turns either. I swim a mike a day five days a week when I can. Much better then before.

[carrnutt]

So sorry to hear of your issues. I blew out a disc and have been on worker's comp for over a year. During this time, my teenage boys have learned a lot and stepped up to the plate to help out and repair things, like car maintenance, house stuff, etc. It is hard for me to just verbalize what we need to do, and it's something I enjoy, so it's hard to just watch. So sometimes I get wrenched up doing things I shouldn't. I too scare people around me with my random groans and grunts.

I had the fusion surgery, it helped but caused other issues. I do however feel better being 9 months post-op. I still can not walk far normally. I do better in stores pushing a cart, without it I don't last long. Some days I need to use the electric carts. As for driving, I have to frequently adjust my position, even as a passenger, but I do better as a driver. I think because of the steering wheel adding support and enabling me to pull myself better to re position.

I would think with the GKs getting older, they can help out a bit with setting up and learn about it at the same time. I let my boys go off on their own for hikes and kayaking. Lots of times, the DW will join them. I keep my phone handy for questions and pics of things they think I'd like to see. Meanwhile I stay back and prepare meals and take life slow and easy. I push myself when I can on "good" days and rest up on the bad ones.

We are all different, I'm 45, overweight and very much out of shape now that I had been laid up for over a year. I am slowly getting back to living again. Pain management is usually good, has been for me. There are options out there for people like you and I, besides narcotic meds. Perhaps a spinal cord stimulator. It's minimally invasive and 100% reversible. Also they do a trial period before committing to the full procedure. Perhaps some meds combined with therapies that are relatively safe, Gabapentin is one that has minimal side effects, there are others. I've been off the Percocet for quite some time since I started it after surgery. Prior to that I was on Norco, but it was pretty ineffective.

I am unable to take anti-inflammatory (Nsaids) placing a large limit on effective meds for me. My pain management, monitors my blood for functions and effects of meds (IE Liver function, etc) and adjusts things as needed. Hopefully you will have good results with your Doctor.

Best of luck and wishes for you and yours!

[D_E_Bishop]

Second Update

Well the MRI is over and the results are in... The spine is in good shape down to the Lumbar region, the short version is I have everything from mild fracturing of a disc to bone on bone, complicated by arthritis and a couple of other things. It was not a shock it was something I kind of knew was coming but I am so d@mm young and have so much to do with the DW, DD's and DGK's.

I know it is not the end of the world but it is a really big bump in the road. I have a consultation with the Pain Management Chief the afternoon and maybe that will start things in the right direction.

We drove the Suzi up to our condo which is about six hours away. Due to meds for radiation mitigation I have to stop at every fast food place on the way up to pee. I could feel things getting worse at every stop. DW drove, so I could relax but I think driving is better. I'm in a different position and the back must have better support.

Our DGK's are girl 14 and boy 12, DW explained about it last night and the DGD almost cried, that made it tough. The DGS is very stoic and doesn't show much expression but he was shaken. I'm the guy that takes them hiking, teaches then how to build their own furniture and (when they are a little older) repair their own cars. Their DAD walked out on the family this summer and it has been hard for them. Now, for the moment at least, I can't do those things that help them learn about how family is suppose to work. Sure the DW and I are hopefully good examples of a Mom and Dad team but the physical stuff I do with them is limited.

Looking at the good side, I can't get down on my hands and knees and put the leveling blocks under the tires so a newer rig with automatic levelers, I my opinion at least, is needed. DGK's could learn to do it but let them learn on their own rigs. I need those levelers. Another really big thing is that there are a lot more hugs all around. Of course I turned the wrong way when I went to hug one of the DD's and scared everyone when I cried out in pain.

I have promised the GK's our old towed and we were looking for a teardrop to build or restore. Now they will have to do most of the work which is good for them but hard on me.

The family is waking up now so my cathartic post will have to end. Thanks for listening and so many thanks for all you thoughts abd advice and moral support. I needed this private time with my friends.

Thanks'

David

[Go_Dogs]

Just be aware that Inversion tables are contraindicated with many people. GERD, Hiatal Hernia, High blood pressure, glaucoma, and pregnancy as examples.

[winnietrey]

Well DE I am a Chiropractor with 35 years in. I have yet to figure out how many visits a patient needs in in advance. So I agree with your MD. Not to say I don't have a general idea, but different patients progress differently.

My Opinion. Start with a good x-ray exam, follow that up with an MRI. X-rays only show bone not soft tissue. Without a thourgh x-ray and mri exam, Doc's are just guessing why you hurt. You condition may or may not, respond to conservative care or you may need surgery. Reason for the MRI, so we know how to approach it

If from your degerative disc disease, you have a bony spur on a nerve root you will in most cases need surgery (spinal stenosis) for example.

With conservative care, along with the chiro a few things to consider and change.

1) loss weight get active walking is great
2) egronomics don't lay on the couch, proper computer set up. sleep on your back or side with pillows between and or under you knees.
3) Shoes often over looked. Good shoes, I like new balance 956. If they don't cost at least $100 don't buy them. And change them out every 6 months as they break down and lack of support affects your back.
4) no heating pad ever, yes I know it feels good, but it is only gating out the pain, but in the mean time greatly increasing inflamation.
5) Specific back exercises, whgci are differnt depending on your condition.
6) Inversion table, for daily use
7) possible lumbar brace for occasional use.

You can not un-ring the bell, once the damage is done the spine in that area is a weak link.

But in my practice very often we can manage it, Give the patient a very good quality of life. So they are actice, rving etc.

So keep the faith, much can be done. But as of right now, sounds like no one has done much of anything.

I hope this was of some benefit to you. And little disclaimer this is only general advice and does not specifaccly apply to you or anyone else. In other words I don't want to get sued

[2oldman]

Losing the weight, although not a miracle cure, will certainly help, a lot.

[Go_Dogs]

D.E.Bishop wrote:
Thanks for the support folks. I am trying most of your suggestions as I speak/type. I have, and probably most important, started loosing about 58 pounds. After I reach 200 pounds, I'll re-evaluate my weight. I'm down to 244 and it's been about 6 weeks.

I found a great diet, it combines exercise and determination. I do three PUSH AWAYS every day. I push away from the table before I feel full and before anyone else. That way I get used to not feeling full and I don't finish everyone's left overs. There are a few other things but that is I feel, the most important item.

I can't wait until I can do something that that requires twisting or turning. I can't reach sideways for something on a kitchen shelf. I have to move until I'm directly in front of the Item an can reach straight ahead. I can't even reach across the desk to the printer and grab a paper right now. Try swimming or walking or just about any exercise that can strengthen your "CORE". I know what is needed but my "core"?


I will be going to my DR on Monday or Tuesday for a referral or to urgent care and have them refer me if he doesn't.

My BIL is a Chiropractor and he has a neat machine that decompresses the spinal column. That is what I need for temporary relief but so far my HMO won't refer me outside the system to a back cracker. Had a long talk with my DR, he believes that there are many times a chiropractor is a good solution. What he dislikes is that they can tell in advance how many visits you need before the relief is permanent. I kind of agree with him, but then again DR's pull the same thing.


When talking to the DR and the PT they keep coming up with "Well a recent Study ...", I hate that. Awhile back a Neck Surgeon", use to be ENT DR, told me what caused my persistent cough. It was from a recent study, put me on pills for GERDS. Turned out he was wrong and both my wife and I had disagreed with him at the time but he had the results of a Recent Study. Now I tell DRs or medical personnel who offer recent study findings what I learned in college forty some years ago. "Recent studies have proven that recent studies are useless". Sometimes we have to go with them but often the old tried and true methods are best.

Thanks again and Bless all of you.

Sounds like you're on the right track with the weight loss. Walking and swimming are excellent for low-impact, muscle strengthening. I hope you're feeling much better, soon! Blessings and prayers to you and your family!

[D_E_Bishop]

Thanks for the support folks. I am trying most of your suggestions as I speak/type. I have, and probably most important, started loosing about 58 pounds. After I reach 200 pounds, I'll re-evaluate my weight. I'm down to 244 and it's been about 6 weeks.

I found a great diet, it combines exercise and determination. I do three PUSH AWAYS every day. I push away from the table before I feel full and before anyone else. That way I get used to not feeling full and I don't finish everyone's left overs. There are a few other things but that is I feel, the most important item.

I can't wait until I can do something that that requires twisting or turning. I can't reach sideways for something on a kitchen shelf. I have to move until I'm directly in front of the Item an can reach straight ahead. I can't even reach across the desk to the printer and grab a paper right now. Try swimming or walking or just about any exercise that can strengthen your "CORE". I know what is needed but my "core"?


I will be going to my DR on Monday or Tuesday for a referral or to urgent care and have them refer me if he doesn't.

My BIL is a Chiropractor and he has a neat machine that decompresses the spinal column. That is what I need for temporary relief but so far my HMO won't refer me outside the system to a back cracker. Had a long talk with my DR, he believes that there are many times a chiropractor is a good solution. What he dislikes is that they can tell in advance how many visits you need before the relief is permanent. I kind of agree with him, but then again DR's pull the same thing.


When talking to the DR and the PT they keep coming up with "Well a recent Study ...", I hate that. Awhile back a Neck Surgeon", use to be ENT DR, told me what caused my persistent cough. It was from a recent study, put me on pills for GERDS. Turned out he was wrong and both my wife and I had disagreed with him at the time but he had the results of a Recent Study. Now I tell DRs or medical personnel who offer recent study findings what I learned in college forty some years ago. "Recent studies have proven that recent studies are useless". Sometimes we have to go with them but often the old tried and true methods are best.

Thanks again and Bless all of you.

[Gjac]

I would get the xrays to see what is going on there. When I had mine taken you could clearly see how the discs were compressed together. On one side of the disc there was about 1/16 in clearance between the discs(compression side) on the other side I had about 1/4 in(tension side). Your lower back is like an S shape so one side is in compression the other side is in tension. Dr. told me most of the pain was caused by a tight hamstring on one side pulling my back out of alignment rather than the compressed disc. Bottom line is after a lot of stretching and core exercises my lower back has improved. I also hang from a chin up bar to stretch out the back after Id o some chin ups. I still have some mild pain, need to stop every 2 hrs or so when driving the MH just to walk( have knee arthritis also). Bottom line there are things that you can do to help.

[bsinmich]

I had L3,4,5 fusion about 7-8 yr ago. I had spinal stenosis that limited my walking ability. The DR said he would cure all my pain. I had no pain before or after the surgery and still don't but I still have walking problems and use a walker or scooter when longer distances are involved. I was 295# and 5'11 1/2" tall. Now I am 5'8" and 225# I just eat a later breakfast, skip lunch and then have supper. I had a 48" waist before the weight loss and also after. Instead of a tall fat guy I became a short fat guy. I am afraid to lose any more weight because I am short enough now. I am now 75 and feel good with very little pain.

[raindove]

I have back problems. I am determined not to have anyone cut on me until I absolutely can't walk. My brother, who is 9 yr my junior had spinal fusion in his 30's. Two months later, he was back in the hospital for a second surgery. He has plates, screws and rods in his back. And is pretty much incapacitated ever since.

Have a friend who is probably mid-70's, who just had a spinal fusion done by a neurosurgeon. She said they tell her to follow BLT -- DO NOT Bend, Lift, or Twist. They told her that ppl start feeling better and do things they shouldn't. Then the screws start backing out, and they have to go back in. She is probably 2 or 3 months post op right now - she was doing better, but was looking at a full year to maximum recovery. Then a week or so ago, her one leg went out on her, and she fell.

The surgery is no picnic in itself. Each person has to determine what they can live with and talk to their dr about their specific condition and figure out what they want to do. There are no easy answers and no one size fits all.

I don't personally know anyone who has had fusion surgery who is pain free. Basically they traded one pain for another.

[hitchup]

I developed some back problems in the last few years. X-ray at the hospital for unrelated issue last year, was told I have a slipped disc, But Dr wasn't concerned, so I didn't do a follow-up.

Can DW do any of the driving, especially in a newer RV?

I would love to do some of the driving. But for some odd reason, DH gets carsick unless he drives. Even when we ride in our DD's van, he has to drive.

I would be more comfortable driving a C or B, but we need the room of the 5er as fulltimers. Eventually, we'll get a Truck Camper to put on the F450. Then maybe I can coax him into letting me drive.

[mockturtle]

No one has ordered any x-rays and they really don't know what is happening.

Sounds a little too conservative, for me.

[Go_Dogs]

Just my 2 cents. From personal experience, I would lose the weight and try low impact,(swimming) exercises to strengthen your muscles. That would be the least invasive way to go. I know it's easy to make excuses to NOT exercise and diet, but it can be done. You have to decide.