Tongue Weight Question

[geelow26]

I know this has been answered in several threads, and I concluded that WDH does not really reduce the tongue weight.

I have a 2015 Nissan Xterra with Towing package (max 5,000 lb. and max 500 lb. hitch weight). Here's the list of trailers I've been looking at. These are all dry weight (trailer weight/hitch weight).
1. Little Guy T@B S Maxx (1670lb/155lb)
2. R-Pod RP172 (2,128 lb/244lb)
3. Jayco Jay Flight SLX 154 BH (3,200lb/280lb)

After adding a propane (they all take single propane) and a battery and some stuff, I was thinking I would have to add another 150 lb to the hitch weight.
I have not yet weigh the vehicle with full tank of gas and passengers, so this is just my guess, but the GVW will be close to or over 5,000lb. Xterra's GVWR is 5,400lb, so my actual max hitch weight will be around 400lb.

I went to four different dealers and talked to at least 5 different sales people, and they all said "you do not have to worry about (the max) hitch weight because you will be using an WDH." I started believing what they were saying until I read about WDH on this forum or other places. It looks like WDH would add extra weight on the hitch (so it's going to be worse??)...

I will go weigh my Xterra sometime this week and find out exact max tongue weight it can handle, but it looks like Jayco is out of my choice if I want to be on the safe side.

Why all the sale people say the same thing about hitch weight? They're just saying that so they can sell a trailer?

Please let me know if I'm going to the wrong direction...

Thanks,

Jiro

[geelow26]

Sooner or later you will want a bigger truck/tow vehicle. Maybe now is the time as you are 'splitting hairs' on what works and what does not. And what you can tow with the Xterra might not be what you really want in a trailer. Why purchase what you might not want just because it can be towed by your existing vehicle? Find the RV you want and then get a tow vehicle for it.


For calculations, use 12-14 percent tongue weight including propane, battery, water, all your stuff and the trailer. You might need to distribute that weight within the trailer to get to that tongue percentage. Some weight behind the axle, some in front kind of thing. Scales and especially a tongue scale like the Sherline will help a lot on this.

As far as the need for a WDH, it all depends on how much weight is added to the rear axle of the Xterra and how well it handles it. You many not need any WDH, you may need one. Anderson makes a relatively light WDH with sway feature built in that you might look into.

I think you will be a lot less frustrated if you decide on the RV you want and then acquire the truck or tow vehicle for it.

Thanks,

What you pointed out was the exact reason I was considering R-Pod and Jayco. I should have mentioned this first. I was initially thinking about T@B after renting a T@G for a week for my trip to Big Bend (I wanted my kitchen inside, and this was the first step up from my initial candidate, T@G). Then I thought It would be nice to consider something bigger if my truck can handle. R-Pod and especially the Jayco are cheaper (probably $3,000-4,000 less than the T@B) and larger compared to the T@B, and I thought it would be nice to have some extra space. I looked at the weight of those two and started worrying about the hitch weight. I will be using it for weekend camping or maybe trip to somewhere far for about a week maximum, so I doubt I will have over 100lb of luggage including cookware/clothes. I am still considering the T@B because I like how it looks and how small it is.

If I had enough money for a bigger camper and TV (my Xterra is a 2015 model), I wouldn't be asking questions here. Plus, my driveway is not really big enough to keep anything longer than 20'. Well, it actually is, but I don't want to use up too much space.

Thanks for the info about Anderson WDH. I will look it up and see what my options are. Since my tongue capacity is related to the GVW, distributing the weight to the front axel does not really help with my capacity much.

I really appreciate your/everyone's information on this. It helps me a lot, and now I am sure I will not listen to what sales people tell me next time I go look at RV's.

Jiro

[jmtandem]

So here's another question. Let's say I get an R-Pod 172. Dry weight 2,128lb/hitch 244lb. It probably is going to be 3100lb/380lb-ish loaded with options/cargo/propane/bettery (just guessing here). Do I want to add a 100lb WDH? It is going to be way over my capacity of 425lb (or GVWR of 5,400lb), but I know it is going to distribute some weight to the trailer. I just think it still is going to be heavier than not having an WDH. I am still trying to figure out how it works.... any input is appreciated.

Sooner or later you will want a bigger truck/tow vehicle. Maybe now is the time as you are 'splitting hairs' on what works and what does not. And what you can tow with the Xterra might not be what you really want in a trailer. Why purchase what you might not want just because it can be towed by your existing vehicle? Find the RV you want and then get a tow vehicle for it.


For calculations, use 12-14 percent tongue weight including propane, battery, water, all your stuff and the trailer. You might need to distribute that weight within the trailer to get to that tongue percentage. Some weight behind the axle, some in front kind of thing. Scales and especially a tongue scale like the Sherline will help a lot on this.

As far as the need for a WDH, it all depends on how much weight is added to the rear axle of the Xterra and how well it handles it. You many not need any WDH, you may need one. Anderson makes a relatively light WDH with sway feature built in that you might look into.

I think you will be a lot less frustrated if you decide on the RV you want and then acquire the truck or tow vehicle for it.

[geelow26]

I forgot to mention that the GCWR is 9,658lb, so my towing capacity will be 4,683lb.

[geelow26]

Thanks all!

I just went to a truck stop to weigh my truck. My GVW without my dog (55lb) was 4,920lb, so with my dog in it, it will be 4,975lb. Now, GVWR is 5,400lb, so my max hitch weight is 425lb.
This is with full tank of gas and one passenger (he is 270lb). I know it will add another 270lb to the max weight if he is not in there, but I'm just going to keep it this way because this is really a possible situation.

So here's another question. Let's say I get an R-Pod 172. Dry weight 2,128lb/hitch 244lb. It probably is going to be 3100lb/380lb-ish loaded with options/cargo/propane/bettery (just guessing here). Do I want to add a 100lb WDH? It is going to be way over my capacity of 425lb (or GVWR of 5,400lb), but I know it is going to distribute some weight to the trailer. I just think it still is going to be heavier than not having an WDH. I am still trying to figure out how it works.... any input is appreciated.

I am going to look at the actual units they have at some RV places to ask the actual weight this weekend.

Thanks,

Jiro

[fla-gypsy]

You have received good advice in this thread and you are right to be concerned. To answer your question, sales people tell you things for two reasons, they care only about the sell, they are completely ignorant or possibly both. Continue to verify the numbers before you purchase and be aware that a vehicle that small has very limited capability.

[jmtandem]

jmtandem, from your calculation, the Jayco is probably within the range, but considering the passengers, my max tongue weight is probably around 400. Like I said, I will weigh the vehicle sometime this week and find out. I am really thinking about R-Pod or T@B just because I don't want to go too close to the limit...

It is good that you are thinking about all this before you purchase not after. That speaks volumes to your ability to be safe. Congratulations on whatever you purchase. I think you will find that with RV's it is never the first one that is the final one and you will want bigger and that will mean a bigger more stout tow vehicle. As others have indicated always use trailer's gross weight not dry weights or brochure weights for your calcualtions. Above 40-45 mph the trailer's wind resistance can be a major issue especially if the wind is blowing and, of course, in the mountains the tow vehicle will work much harder climbing and you will need to be sure it can also safely get you down as well. Good luck.

[Stormpeakco]

geelow26 wrote:
Thanks intheburbs and jmtandem for your reply.

jmtandem, from your calculation, the Jayco is probably within the range, but considering the passengers, my max tongue weight is probably around 400. Like I said, I will weigh the vehicle sometime this week and find out. I am really thinking about R-Pod or T@B just because I don't want to go too close to the limit...

Do you guys recommend WDH (maybe with sway control) even though I get an R-Pod or a T@B?

Jiro

Not an expert (by any means) but have you looked into a TrailManor (TM) or Escape, Oliver or Casita?
We recently purchased a TM that could be towed by our daily driven SUV (Durango), fit into our garage and yet have AC, shower, toilet, kitchen for boondocking.
Also etrailer has some great deals on Pro Series RB3 WDHs ($214). BTW, nearly nobody (hundreds of long term owners) that owns a TM uses anti-sway since the axle is further posterior and the low profile of a fold-up unit. Good Luck.

[SoundGuy]

geelow26 wrote:
Please let me know if I'm going to the wrong direction...

A few comments ...

Those trailer weight numbers you're referring to appear to be brochure weights, not the actual weights of the particular unit you might buy ... those are the numbers you want, particularly a unit's dry weight as it left the factory, which is indicated on a sticker affixed to the trailer's street sidewall. To that weight you'd want to add the weight of propane and a battery added later by the dealer plus the weight of any water you may want to carry. With any of these trailers which will all have a relatively low GVWR that will leave you with very little CCC (Cargo Carrying Capacity) ... that's important because if you can't carry it in your trailer due to lack of capacity it's going to have to go in your TV instead and that in turn will further reduce your vehicle's already meagre payload capacity, particularly if you also plan to carry any passengers at all. As for weight distribution, allowing just 75 lbs may be a little shy, especially if it's a simple trunnion or round bar chain type system that also requires the use of a separate friction sway bar. Most WD systems that integrate sway control into the design will also weigh quite a bit ... IIRC my Equal-i-zer added ~ 90 lbs, the Blue Ox Sway Pro is well over 100 lbs, so if the additional weight of a WD system is a concern you might want to consider an Andersen No Sway WD system which would only add ~ 50 lbs. Finally, be aware that any properly sized and adjusted weight distribution system will transfer weight to both the TV's front steer axle (which is what you're trying to achieve) AND some back to the trailer's axle(s). With a marginal TV such as you have you really do need to go weigh your particular vehicle, with a full tank of gas, then crunch the numbers to see what you really have to work with, particularly payload capacity which will unquestionably be your Achilles Heel. 😉

[scrubjaysnest]

In TX the Jayco will be fine, in the Rockies not so good. You will find your TV marginal in anything other then flat country towing.
Check out the e-trailer web site for WDH info and hitches.

[geelow26]

Thanks intheburbs and jmtandem for your reply.

jmtandem, from your calculation, the Jayco is probably within the range, but considering the passengers, my max tongue weight is probably around 400. Like I said, I will weigh the vehicle sometime this week and find out. I am really thinking about R-Pod or T@B just because I don't want to go too close to the limit...

Do you guys recommend WDH (maybe with sway control) even though I get an R-Pod or a T@B?

Jiro

[jmtandem]

I know this has been answered in several threads, and I concluded that WDH does not really reduce the tongue weight.

I have a 2015 Nissan Xterra with Towing package (max 5,000 lb. and max 500 lb. hitch weight). Here's the list of trailers I've been looking at. These are all dry weight (trailer weight/hitch weight).
1. Little Guy T@B S Maxx (1670lb/155lb)
2. R-Pod RP172 (2,128 lb/244lb)
3. Jayco Jay Flight SLX 154 BH (3,200lb/280lb)

After adding a propane (they all take single propane) and a battery and some stuff, I was thinking I would have to add another 150 lb to the hitch weight.
I have not yet weigh the vehicle with full tank of gas and passengers, so this is just my guess, but the GVW will be close to or over 5,000lb. Xterra's GVWR is 5,400lb, so my actual max hitch weight will be around 400lb.

I went to four different dealers and talked to at least 5 different sales people, and they all said "you do not have to worry about (the max) hitch weight because you will be using an WDH." I started believing what they were saying until I read about WDH on this forum or other places. It looks like WDH would add extra weight on the hitch (so it's going to be worse??)...

I will go weigh my Xterra sometime this week and find out exact max tongue weight it can handle, but it looks like Jayco is out of my choice if I want to be on the safe side.

Why all the sale people say the same thing about hitch weight? They're just saying that so they can sell a trailer?

Please let me know if I'm going to the wrong direction...

Thanks,

Jiro

Work the math backwards. Use 13 percent as the target goal for the tongue weight as a percentage of the trailer's total weight and use 75 pounds or so for the WDH weight. If you have a 5000 pound tow rating for the Xterra and a 500 pound max tongue/hitch weight you can tow a trailer that weighs about 3500 pounds plus the WDH weight (3500 pounds X .13 equals about 450 pounds plus the hitch weight of around 75 pounds pretty much uses up all your capacity.) A WDH redistributes about 20-25 percent of the redistributed weight to the trailer axles so you should be good to go at that trailer and tongue weight.

Sales people are there to make sales. To make it work for you with what you have. Nuff said!

[intheburbs]

NEVER rely on RV salesmen for accurate information.

The very first time I visited an RV dealer, I was driving my half ton Burb. First words out of the salesman's mouth - "Oh, you have a Suburban. You can tow any trailer on the lot."

Do your own research, and never rely on dry weights.