What am I doing

[js2500hd]

Hi everyone my first post. I have a 2002 Chevy 2500HD 3/4 ton 4.10 gears that pulls our 4,000lb (fully loaded) 18' expandable trailer like a dream. On all but the steepest grades I'm able to keep around 65mph without redlining the engine. I can accelerate up to speed on on ramps with ease I really don't feel that trailer back there at all.

We are just about to purchase a 6,500lb(fully loaded)25'toy hauler, how bad is this going to kill my performance. I don't want to be flooring this truck just to get 45mph on a grade that with my other trailer I had no problems. Is the extra 3,000 pounds going to have a huge impact on my 3/4 ton??? The toy hauler at 25' is still claiming to be 1/2 ton towable.

Any help will be greatly appreciated

[1happyhauler]

I pulled a 13000 lb kz sportmen toy hauler with a 98 2500 chevy 350 with 410 rearend ran around 3000 to 3500 rpm every where it surprisengly towed preety well did that for 6 years even took it it to jacksonville florida from st.louis ran around 5000 rpm up mont eagle at abou t 50 mph and the check engine light cam on about a hundred miles later whent off exhaust just got that hot did the same thing on the way home other than that trip whent great but i`m glad i finally got my ram 3500 cab chassis cummins manual dont even know the trailers back there now

[badercubed]

hops wrote:
Thanks coming back and sharing your experience.

I think a lot of these fine people that say the gas engines will be a good fit either aren't towing a larger trailer(toy haulers not only weigh more per foot, but are taller and wider) or have a current 6+ speed transmission.

You are probably on point with it being the 6 speed transmission. I don't have a problem maintaining, and accelerating, at highway speeds up a grade with my gasser and 9500lb trailer.

[IDoMyOwnStunts]

hops wrote:
Thanks coming back and sharing your experience.

I think a lot of these fine people that say the gas engines will be a good fit either aren't towing a larger trailer(toy haulers not only weigh more per foot, but are taller and wider) or have a current 6+ speed transmission.

I'm pulling nearly the same weight and type trailer as the OP. I was itching to say something because of all the people saying a gas engine couldn't do it up a grade at the speed limit. But what you said about the 6 speed transmission makes complete sense. I have had no issues with my last 2 trucks pulling my trailer (controlling it with the 1/2 ton was another story). They've both been 6 speed.

I'm sure OP will enjoy the diesel. But fast forward a decade in model years and any HD pickup would do just fine pulling that toy hauler.

[hops]

Thanks coming back and sharing your experience.

I think a lot of these fine people that say the gas engines will be a good fit either aren't towing a larger trailer(toy haulers not only weigh more per foot, but are taller and wider) or have a current 6+ speed transmission.

[BenK]

Torque is the twisting force...normally referred to in Ft/Lb (foot pound)

HP, Horse Power, is what work that torque can do. Components are torque, RPM and
a simple algebraic formula: HP = torque x RPM / 5252 (torque multiplied by RPM
divided by 5252

A transmission multiplies or changes the input RPM to whatever ratio to the
output. Can be higher or lower depending on the ratio

So if the ICE develops, say 100 ft/lbs at the flywheel...it can have more or less
ft/lbs accordingly to which gear the tranny is in

That ft/lb of torque then goes to the drive shaft (am leaving out 4x4 here) to
go to the diff

At the diff (a transmission) there is another gear ratio and will normally
increase that ft/lb torque by the ratio number

That then goes to the axle shafts, that turn the wheel, that turns the tires
to finally put that ft/lb torque to pavement

Example:

100 ft/lb to tranny in first gear ratio of 6:1. Meaning the tranny output shaft
will have 600 ft/lbs to the drive shaft

100 ft/lb to the tranny in OD gear ratio of 0.7:1. Meaning the tranny output
shaft will have 70 ft/lbs to the drive shaft

The drive shaft is connected to the input shaft of the diff. Above 600 ft/lbs
in 1st gear will have the diff ratio multiply it to the axles

If a 4.1 diff ratio, that 600 ft/lbs will be 2,460 ft/lbs to the axle shafts
If a 3.73 diff ratio, that 600 ft/lbs will be 2,238 ft/lbs.
Notice that most all diff ratios are about 10% steps going up or down from each
other

The main reason why diesel's can have lower diff ratios, as they have very high
ft/lbs at low RPMs

Why gassers need higher ratios (not just at the diff, but also at today's close
ratio trannies) and spin faster to attain similar ft/lbs

Then there the various other diesel's and gassers...that has big block
gassers not able/designed to run at high RPMs.

My 7.4L gasser has a red line starting with dashed red at around 3.8K RPM
and would blow up above that & where small blocks can run all day at

Since more and more folks do not or did not go through that during
their boy racer/gear head/wrench teen days...the OEM's have removed
the human decision(s) to manage the RPMs of ICE's to the computers,
which are then highly integrated to other computers and systems

Like the automatic, ABS, traction control, torque control, etc, etc, etc

So and again...wonder why folks need to be worried about this. You all
(most) have driven the OEMs to take that decision away from you and
left it all to the computer

If watching the RPMs and controlling it for whatever driving condition
is that important...then order a manual the next time you purchase a TV...

[wnjj]

Grit dog wrote:
Problem is, no matter how high you wind up a gasser, you still only get 400ft lbs, give or take, regardless of who makes it, what year it is and what gearing is in the rear end.

I just wanted to point out that contrary to Ford's advertising, torque is not power. It's also not engine torque but rear wheel torque along with the rate it is delivered (wheel rpm) that determines how fast you go up a hill. So higher rpm and lower gearing is exactly why a gas engine can have HP near that of a diesel with only a certain amount of torque.

RPM and torque are 100% interchangeable when talking about power production, assuming you can get past the high RPM being a problem.

Note that in the real world this doesn't translate to an equivalent towing experience since gas engines run similar low RPM's when cruising under lighter loads. This means a downshift or 2 is required whenever the demand goes up versus pouring more fuel into a diesel to increase the torque at the same RPM. If you left your gas truck in 2nd gear all the time it would pull really strong but you couldn't carry enough gas along. 🙂

[N-Trouble]

Use to have exact same truck and pulled a 21ft toyhauler that was ~7000-7500lbs fully loaded. I can tell you a 25ft TH is NOT going to top out at 6500lbs. Not sure who gave you those figures... Probably closer to 7500-8000lbs depending on what you have loaded.

You will be spending a lot of time in 2nd gear watching the fuel needle move. Not a great towing experience until I got the diesel.

[time2roll]

45 up a steepish hill is far more normal than you think. 4000 rpm is normal for a gas engine. Yes you will loose some acceleration and hill climbing power. Still the truck will take that new trailer cross country over the highest mountains with no real issues. The only issues are in the imagination.

[LIKE2BUILD]

js2500hd wrote:
Ok I got the trailer and the trailer with our side by side in it was more than I'm comfortable with the 6.0L It really labored and had to spin up to 4000+ to barely keep 55 where my Travel Star would just be off over drive at 65. I'm looking for a diesel now. I think someone is fibbing about the trailer weight.

I used to have the '04 version of your truck. It pulled my 7500# TT reliably, but just as you experienced it would wind to 4,000RPM in hilly terrain. It can be done, but it you pull through any significant hills the sound of the engine roaring gets old pretty quick.

KJ

[IBcarguy]

Good choice. I switched to the Duramax LML a month ago and will never go back to gas as long as I'm towing. My truck will pull my trailer at 65mph at 1600 rpm up most hills without even down shifting. Expensive truck but worth it to me.

[mkirsch]

Well... They ARE made to run at those RPMs, but some people just have this notion in their head that if the engine is turning more than 2000RPM, the engine is "screaming" or "struggling" or "flying apart."

That's their prerogative. God love 'em, because the truck salesmen sure do. They run right out and drop $65K in a blind panic because their "gutless" gasser hit 2001RPM towing a trailer.

[Grit_dog]

js2500hd wrote:
Well as it turns out the dealer was full of @##$ on the trailer weight,the gvwr is 8000. I had the trailer loaded to 7800lbs and the 6.0L gas engine imo sucks pulling that kind of weight.

If you like going 40mph up a grade with the engine screaming the entire time, thats fine but not for me.I think it's like driving a 16d framing nail with a tack hammer. The tack hammer will eventually beat that 16d in but it's just not the right tool for the job.

I traded in that gas motor for a 2004 LLY Duramax and the difference is astonishing. The diesel tugs that 7800lbs up grades at 65mph without breaking a sweat. Another big + is MPG that 6.0L with 4.10 gears thought gas was free,10-12mpg empty at 75 , 5-7mpg pulling the bigger trailer at about 55 average. The diesel got 17.7empty at 75mph and 11mpg tugging the trailer at 65mph.

So there you have it,having tried pulling a 7800lb trailer with a 6.0L gas engine I would NEVER EVER recommend it to someone else. But if you are a person that likes crawling up a hill with your foot mashed on the floor and your truck screaming then use the 6.0L gas engine.

Careful....all the gas engine leg humpers here will tell you how the engines are "made" to run at those rpms and how great it is. Problem is, no matter how high you wind up a gasser, you still only get 400ft lbs, give or take, regardless of who makes it, what year it is and what gearing is in the rear end.
Similar experiences about 1000x since my company work trucks have always been gassers and have to tow with them. But the best comparison was, took a brand new, "best truck on earth" 6.2 F250 up to AK with1000-1500lbs in the bed and a 3000?lb single axle enclosed v nose trailer. Averaged 8.5mpg and it was only that good because I was going slow over the frost heaves and 3rd or second gear up every hill.
Same trip 2 months later with my 07 Cummins grossing about 18,000lbs with twice the frontal area with the camper on and a 6klb at least trailer behind it, made a good 3mpg better and only downshift out of 6th if the curves were too tight or the bumps too big to maintain highway speed.

[js2500hd]

Well as it turns out the dealer was full of @##$ on the trailer weight,the gvwr is 8000. I had the trailer loaded to 7800lbs and the 6.0L gas engine imo sucks pulling that kind of weight.

If you like going 40mph up a grade with the engine screaming the entire time, thats fine but not for me.I think it's like driving a 16d framing nail with a tack hammer. The tack hammer will eventually beat that 16d in but it's just not the right tool for the job.

I traded in that gas motor for a 2004 LLY Duramax and the difference is astonishing. The diesel tugs that 7800lbs up grades at 65mph without breaking a sweat. Another big + is MPG that 6.0L with 4.10 gears thought gas was free,10-12mpg empty at 75 , 5-7mpg pulling the bigger trailer at about 55 average. The diesel got 17.7empty at 75mph and 11mpg tugging the trailer at 65mph.

So there you have it,having tried pulling a 7800lb trailer with a 6.0L gas engine I would NEVER EVER recommend it to someone else. But if you are a person that likes crawling up a hill with your foot mashed on the floor and your truck screaming then use the 6.0L gas engine.

[IBcarguy]

Your 6.0 with 4.10 gears should pull it okay but adding 2000 lbs will definitely make a difference in performance on grades. The power curve on that motor is at the higher RPMs so let it buzz when it needs to. Before I got my diesel, revving my gas motor all the way up a mountain used to stress me out a bit, so eventually my expectation of performance became a little more realistic and I slowed down a little.