What is the weak link?

[Empty_Nest__Soo]

My current truck has a tow rating of 10,000 pounds. I ordered it equipped with all the towing gizmos. In considering buying a bigger TT, the limiting factor seems to be the carrying capacity, which is only 1444 pounds. If I expect to take the wife, the dog, some bikes and a generator, I don’t have much left for carrying tongue weight.

What is the weak link in the carrying capacity? Suspension? Tire capacity? Rear axle capacity? Frame? Something else, a combination, all the above?

I’m wondering if there is any way to upgrade the weakest component to safely coax a couple of hundred more pounds of carrying capacity.

I would like to be able to safely tow a TT of up to 8000 pounds loaded and a tongue weight of maybe 1200 pounds, yet still carry another passenger and a little bit of stuff. A new truck is not an option.

Wayne

[Empty_Nest__Soo]

I’ve tried listing my requirements several times over the years, and I’ve found that most responders tend to focus on one item on the list and disregard the others. One thing I want is dual pane windows. Whenever I’ve listed our requirements, it seems nearly everyone wants to focus on the dual pane windows and suggests Arctic Fox or some other 4-season model (most of which seem to be available only along the Pacific coast – we’re in West Virginia.) None of the 4-season TT’s are light. The floorplans don’t meet most of our other listed needs.

The toughest thing in meeting our requirements is: It seems all but impossible to find any dresser drawers at all except in a few TT’s well over 30’, a fifth-wheel, or a motorhome. Our 19-foot TT has 6 dresser drawers in the bedroom. I’m not willing to live out of a suitcase long term.

In a recent thread someone suggested the Eagle 266RKS. Not perfect. Dresser is in the main living area. But we could make that work if my current truck could tow it safely. But it appears that this would be stretching too much the tow capacity of my truck.

Wayne

[APT]

This site is sometimes and amazing group of people and knowledge. If you list your requirements for floorplan and features, I'm sure someone can spring some new ideas. 🙂

[Michelle_S]

I guess we must be in the minority as our only tow/daily driver since retirement is a 3500 Dually.

[Empty_Nest__Soo]

APT – My wife recently retired. I’ve been retired for 10 years. I admit that I don’t drive every day, but when I do, it’s usually driving 75 miles or more roundtrip, or at least 4 hours one way. I can’t do a 3/4-ton anymore.

A 25’ TT would do the job, if designed right. But the right features are tough to find in that length. It gets a little easier in the neighborhood of 27’. One I’ve got my eye weighs 6520 dry (and probably much more after options are added, we know how that works) with a dry hitch weight of 970 pounds.

With a Class A it is easy to find the features we want and I could buy a good used one for about the same as I would pay to trade the truck and trade the present TT. Big unknown right now is how much I would leave the Class A sit between trips because I know they like to be run and not sit.

Wayne

[APT]

That makes more sense Wayne. However, with more towing miles than non existent retired empty commuting miles, the HD makes even more sense!

You can make the current truck work fine for a couple traveling for a month at a time towing a 7000-ish loaded TT. Just find something closer to 5k dry vs. 6500. Plenty out there even with more equipment/features/conveniences! It just might end up being shorter, like 25' box vs. 30'.

[Empty_Nest__Soo]

APT wrote:

A new truck is not an option.

It is always an option. . .

I didn't mean to imply that I couldn't afford to buy a new truck and a new TT. Sorry.

It would be more accurate for me to say that a 3/4-ton truck is not an option for me. I use my truck as a daily driver most of the year. I drove a 3/4-ton truck for 13 years. During that time, I got old, I got arthritis in my back. It came to a point where the truck was beating me to death, so I traded it on a half-ton for my own comfort.

If I cannot safely make a suitable TT work with this truck, plan B is probably a Class A motor home. For a variety of reasons, I prefer a nicer TT than the current one. My wife and I are now both retired and plan to do more camping and longer trips.

Wayne

[APT]

Empty Nest, Soon wrote:

Beltzy wrote:
I added compressor and air bags to my 2012 1500 and that was towing at 7200 dry weight, i didnt do anything else to it and we did great. the only concern i had was emergency stopping, so i just layed back kept my distance and took it slow getting around until i could finally afford to upgrade.

That is more encouraging.

How is that encouraging? He was not comfortable towing similar weight with his half ton so he upgraded.

A new truck is not an option.

It is always an option. It has value, and is certainly worth more than a 2007.5+ GM HD that is far more capable and comfortable towing 8000 pounds loaded. A new to you truck does not have brand new. You are planning to spend money to upgrade the RV but cannot afford to upgrade the TV at the same time? That's fair. Buy the truck first!

[PUCampin]

Empty Nest, Soon wrote:
Looking at this another way . . . If I:

1) keep the loaded tongue weight under the rated 1100 pounds, and

2) keep the WDH adjusted (and weight distributed) so that the truck sits level, and

3) keep the combined weight of the loaded TT and truck below the rated 15,000 pounds, and

4) a scale shows the truck weight with everything loaded to go camping at or below the rated 6400 pounds,

should that be okay?

Wayne

YES!!

[PUCampin]

rhagfo wrote:

PUCampin wrote:
For 1/2 ton that GRAWR number is almost always limited by the springs. But first, add the 2 rear tire load capacities. Is it higher than the GRAWR? For a 1/2 ton it ill usually be higher, but if not, this is the first step.

Don't worry about the axle itself. If you look at the stand alone axle capacity, it is almost certainly higher than the GRAWR.

This leaves the springs, which are purposly made soft in a 1/2 ton to appeal to the majority of 1/2 ton buyers. Adding some overloads or air bags will add some payload capacity allowing the truck to sit more level with a load and be safer.

However, REMEMBER the brakes were designed to stop the GVWR of the truck. They are not going to catch fire and melt by exceeding GVWR by a few hundred pounds, but the stopping distance will be increase the more weight you add.

Nothing like adding a ton of weight to the Semi-Floating rear axle found on almost all 1500/150 trucks.
Lets not forget that is a 5.3 liter engine, and transmission.

Time for a bigger truck, spending money to make a 1/2 stronger is a wast of money to me. Instead invest in a 250/2500 or 350/3500, and be done with it!

First, even semi-floating axles are rated far above the typical 4000lb GRAWR rating for 1/2 tons. They are NOT going to be the first thing to break. Nor is the proven 5.3 and 6spd automatic, not the weakest link by far. It may not get them there as fast as your diesel, but it will get them there and it won't blow up in the process.

Second, NO ONE is proposing adding a TON (2000lbs) of weight. If you re-read the OP, the poster is asking about increasing cargo capacity by a few HUNDRED pounds, and what aspect they need to address. They are not asking to put a hard sided TC on their truck. Heck, the truck would probably handle a few hundred pounds over without any modifications, but a couple simple changes will make it more comfortable and safer.

Selling current truck for something bigger so they can carry a few hundred pounds more is hardly necessary or cost effective.

[Empty_Nest__Soo]

Looking at this another way . . . If I:

1) keep the loaded tongue weight under the rated 1100 pounds, and

2) keep the WDH adjusted (and weight distributed) so that the truck sits level, and

3) keep the combined weight of the loaded TT and truck below the rated 15,000 pounds, and

4) a scale shows the truck weight with everything loaded to go camping at or below the rated 6400 pounds,

should that be okay?

Wayne

[Empty_Nest__Soo]

Thanks everyone!

I understand the advantages of a 3/4-ton truck, but that is no longer an option. I drove one for 13 years. In that time I got old and I got arthritis in my back. It got to the point where the truck was beating me to death. I traded it on a half-ton and I’m not going back. Besides, for about the cost of a new truck plus a new trailer, I could sell the current TT, buy a used Class A, keep my current truck for my daily driver at home, and tow my wife’s comfortable small car for local transportation when traveling.

I don’t have P class, load range B tires – I ordered the truck with LT class, load range C tires. Rated at 2205 each, per the sidewall info. If necessary, I would be happy to buy load range D or E tires.

GAWR RR for my truck is 3750 per the sticker on the door. Less than the total for the two tires. I don’t know if that is due to the limitations of the soft springs, the axle, or . . . .

I fully understand that the rear springs, axle, and brakes on this truck look pretty puny in comparison to my 2500. I don’t have aspirations of going to something close to what that could carry, which IIRC was something like 3600 pounds.

The manual says the allowable hitch weight with WD is 1100 pounds. I would like to be able to go close to that and still carry another 600 pounds of driver, passenger, dog, bikes, and generator. I’m only looking to go to maybe as much as 1700 pounds instead of the rated 1444, if that’s not unreasonable. Maybe less than 1700 if I don’t have to count that part of the tongue weight that would get transferred back to the TT axle by the WD springs.

Wayne

[JIMNLIN]

What is the weak link in the carrying capacity? Suspension? Tire capacity? Rear axle capacity? Frame? Something else, a combination, all the above?

Depends on the vehicle but for a ?? model 1500 GM truck the P tires and probably stock wheels need a upgrade. Next would be rear suspension help for more load carrying ability. I've seen specs on a 1500 semi float GM rear axle in the 4800-4900 lb range. Brakes are a function of the trucks axle ratings.

I’m wondering if there is any way to upgrade the weakest component to safely coax a couple of hundred more pounds of carrying capacity.

Sure but again it not generic to all trucks but in a the case of a 1500 truck with a semi float rear axle its pretty limited to my above points.

I would use your trucks RAWR for figuring how much hitch weight the rear axle can carry. Trucks GVWR or the mfg payload or a tire placard number isn't used in any legal aspect to determine any trucks payload. Truck makers aren't about to build a truck frame that can't handle the GAWRs.
Example; Your rear axle may have a 3950 RAWR. Many 1500 truck owners report a rear unladin weight in the 2300-2500 lb range which leaves your truck with around 1450-1650 lb for a max load before going over the trucks RAWR. IMO every truck owner that is concerned with weight should know the truck separate front and rear axle weight numbers.

[transamz9]

rhagfo wrote:

PUCampin wrote:
For 1/2 ton that GRAWR number is almost always limited by the springs. But first, add the 2 rear tire load capacities. Is it higher than the GRAWR? For a 1/2 ton it ill usually be higher, but if not, this is the first step.

Don't worry about the axle itself. If you look at the stand alone axle capacity, it is almost certainly higher than the GRAWR.

This leaves the springs, which are purposly made soft in a 1/2 ton to appeal to the majority of 1/2 ton buyers. Adding some overloads or air bags will add some payload capacity allowing the truck to sit more level with a load and be safer.

However, REMEMBER the brakes were designed to stop the GVWR of the truck. They are not going to catch fire and melt by exceeding GVWR by a few hundred pounds, but the stopping distance will be increase the more weight you add.

Nothing like adding a ton of weight to the Semi-Floating rear axle found on almost all 1500/150 trucks.
Lets not forget that is a 5.3 liter engine, and transmission.

Time for a bigger truck, spending money to make a 1/2 stronger is a wast of money to me. Instead invest in a 250/2500 or 350/3500, and be done with it!

I'm not saying for the OP to take a S10 and mod it to handle a 40' 5er. The trailer that he is talking about is not huge. With the right bars that 1200# hitch weight is going to be distributed to all the axles (truck and camper) not just on the rear axle. I think what he wants to do it doable with the right set-up.

[transamz9]

mkirsch wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

Campin LI wrote:
Agree with the above post. You need to get the specs on each component to see. In your case it may be more than 1. For me, I own a Ford Excursion which is a 3/4 ton truck based on the F250/350 platform. Although the frames are not identical, they are similar. The other parts, including engine, transmission, axles, brakes, etc. are all the same. The "main" difference is the suspension. It has SUV springs for general ride comfort. There may be other differences I am not aware of.

General good rule of thumb is: You got what you got, it is what it is, it's not what it's not and most importantly..........It will never be what it's not.

Not necessarily. The good thing about machines now days is you can always make them stronger just depends on how much money you want to spend as to how strong you make it. Most people just can't look past the little sticker on the door.

There comes a point very early on on the "spending money" process where it makes more sense to buy the bigger truck that comes with the capacity you need, out of the box. Plus, it will never handle as well as the truck with the capacity you need.

I'll have to disagree with you on this. My 2005 2500 that I have modified to handle my rig handles it just as well as my 2010 DRW 3500 that I bought but it pulls it better because I didn't want to mod the 6.7 that was in the 3500 because of a lot of reasons. Have no problem modding my 05.