Why not to buy used.

[Terryallan]

I know there are MANY on her who say. NEVER buy new, always buy used RVs. Myself. I always buy new, and here is an example why.

This week we were camping beside a man who had just bought a used 2015 TT. Over the course of the trip. He found out the toilet had been frozen, and had to be repaired. Then the water heater would not work, and the fresh tank was missing the plug. the list goes on.
Best thing about his trip is that he lived close by. So he didn't have to stay in a unusable TT. As soon as he fixed one thing. He found another. Didn't get to stay even one night at the CG.

That boys and girls. Is why I always suggest you buy new.

[TomG2]

I get the "Do it my way" mantra of the buy used crowd. I understand the opportunity cost of funds. I get all that.

Tell me this. Which water heater is more likely to fail? A new one or a three year old model? Which Air conditioner is most likely to be more efficient and reliable? A new one or a four year old unit? Which wheel bearings are going to fail sooner and ruin a vacation? Those hand packed by a skilled mechanic with the recommended lubricant or those serviced by a owner who thinks that "one grease is as good as another and I am going to sell it anyway"? People do the strangest things when they are going to dump their used stuff.

After forty years in the construction business, we always preferred to know the service life of a unit and therefore purchased new when dealing with critical equipment like backhoes. Fresh paint and a new set of decals only fools the unwise.

[soren]

Terryallan wrote:

soren wrote:

Terryallan wrote:

DallasSteve wrote:
As a former CPA I must comment that depreciation is a cost of owning an RV even if you choose to ignore it to make yourself feel better. If you spend $100,000 on a motorhome and you keep it 50 years until you die you still lost the use of that $100,000 for other purposes. If you don't care about that extra $100,000, that's fine, but depreciation is still a real cost to anyone wanting to get into RVs.

Actually that makes no sense. ANYTHING you buy ties that money up so you can't use it for anything else. Sad that you have to put money before anything. And a question. Who did you buy your RV for? You? or the next guy. I bought mine for me.

"Actually that makes no sense."


Seriously? I would never go onto a forum about brain surgery and offer advice on how to operate, for a pretty simple reason. I would have no idea what I was talking about. In a similar vein, here you are, arguing with an accountant, yet the concept of "Lost Opportunity Cost" is something that makes no sense to you? That is simply amazing.

You might want to grab a copy of, "the millionaire next door". It's a useful tool in explaining the difference between those that understand that a lifetime of discipline, and solid decision making, backed by solid financial education, can leave you retiring young and wealthy, on the same paycheck that most squander away. An obvious component of that success is understanding why you don't succeed by buying new toys (boats, RVs, ATVs, etc) and throw away 60% of your purchase price, in the first couple or years, in depreciation.

Obviously we dissagree. Any thing you buy takes money away from something else. Like you can go to a nice restaurant, and spend more, or got to a fast food and spend less. But then you get less. Just like you do when you buy used. It only take a little more to go first class. However. IF you want to go thru life using other people's throw aways. It's good for me. So maybe when after 10, ot 15 years of using my TT. You will step up and pay me 40 percent of the MSRP for a worn out TT. That I got ALL the good out of.
As I said. RVs don't depreciate near as much as many of you think they do. Atleast not around here. And if you have to finance. the paymment on a new one are actually lower than on a used one.

Yes I financed mine for 12 years. Just in case something happened. I wanted a cushion. Paid it off in less than 5. Truth is few real working people can pay cash for a RV. So you will pardon me if I like to have firsties instead of worn out seconds.

Doesn't matter if it's my post, or the accountant's, there is no "disagreement" regarding the facts of economics. As for some strange idea you have that most of us are somehow overstating depreciation, I guess it's what you need to believe to justify your reasoning, but it has little to do with reality. As for depreciation not being significant in your area, I guess it's a matter of how willing you are to find a good deal, In your case, you have no interest in used RVs, so no incentive to find the right one, at the right price. Your concept of paying huge amounts for a worn out 10-15 year old trailer is simply ridiculous. I'm talking about the nationwide availability of things like my MH which was seven years old, barely used, in excellent condition AND sold for 40% of the original sale price. At the time of that purchase, good friends of ours bought a new one. Same brand, same model group. Three years later they traded it it in, for $60K less than they paid. in three years of use, they LOST $15K more in depreciation than we SPENT for essentially the same product.

Like I said, I encourage you, or anybody to sing the virtues of buying new. If your idea of "going first class" is overpaying for a massively depreciating, poorly built liability, AND taking out a loan to do so, well bless you heart. I'll pass.

[Mr_Mark1]

As mentioned earlier, we buy and like new. Our '08 Dynasty was driven for just shy of 70K miles over 7.5 yrs. When we sold it, we got back 49% of what we actually paid (45% after consignment fee). I don't thing that was too bad.

I bought a new RV mattress to put in the unit as we had bought a new Pillow to Beauty Rest mattress after the 'piece of junk' Sleep Number kept failing. Put that 'good' mattress in a guest room.

Someone got a very well maintained Dynasty with one year old tires and one year old AGM batteries. There were a couple of small items that needed attention (very small). I hope the coach is serving the new owners well.

I will take care of our new coach just as well and I think it will bring a nice price at 'selling' time. There is a cost to everything..... Ocean cruises, new clothes, furniture, etc. that you will get zero back. Some things hold their value like antique furniture and designer clothes but, again, most things don't.

Things in life have costs and we all put a value on them. I'm an Accountant like the other poster so I know exactly the cost of depreciation.

Safe travels,
MM.

[jplante4]

sneakygroundbuzzard wrote:
kills me how so many people who think used is the only way to go,like to tell others how to spend their money.

I'm not trying to tell you how to spend your money. If I had the money, I'd go and get Liberty to build me a coach on a Prevost and not look back. I'm only pointing out that not wanting to sleep in a "used" bed is the dumbest justification for buying a new rig. Do you only stay in brand new hotels? Imagine the debauchery that occurred on those beds!!! What do your friends and relatives say when you ask them to buy a new mattress for your next visit?

I get that you feel that you need to justify your stance because deep down you know it's wasteful. Just saying "That's the way I want it" should be enough.

[sneakygroundbuz]

jplante4 wrote:

sneakygroundbuzzard wrote:
the wife and i just bought our first TT
we bought new
we did that for a few reasons
because we wanted a new one and not a used one was the biggest factor

yes we know it depreciated as soon as we took delivery of it

we didnt want a used one. didnt like the idea of sleeping on a bed that some else has done who knows what in it.

This reason for buying new amazes me every time it comes up and it comes up in every one of these new vs. used threads

You do know that they sell mattresses separately from a motor home, right?

They also sell new toilet seats for about $10.

we are fully aware of that.
but like i said,its our money and we will pend it as we see fit.
now if you were offering to buy me a travel trailer.well then i would let you buy me a used one if thats what you wanted to do.

ive worked hard for the last 40 years,and will continue to do so until i retire.

i like to buy new because technology changes, and i like technology.

and then theres the fact that a 5-10 year old TT wouldnt looks as nice (to us) behind our brand new truck.


kills me how so many people who think used is the only way to go,like to tell others how to spend their money.

trust me,i wont belittle any one for buying used vs new. its your money so spend it as you see fit.

[RGar974417]

We have owned 2 pop ups and 4 travel trailers. 2 were new,the rest were used. We saved a lot of money buying used. Over time we had to make some repairs like replacing the awning or water heater.But in the long run,used worked out for us. I agree that many dealers will take their time fixing warranty issues. We bought a new trailer in 2015 that had 2 small warranty issues.it was a 100 mile round trip to the dealer so i fixed them myself. We sold our 2003 Sunline in 2014. We paid $9,000 used and sold it for $3,000 11 years later. It had a new toilet,new water heater and new awning material. That was a great deal for the buyer.If you buy used,make sure you check for any evidence of roof leaks. That can be a no no. But most other things are easy fixes and the money you save by buying used can easily pay for any repairs you may need to make down the road.

[Terryallan]

soren wrote:

Terryallan wrote:

DallasSteve wrote:
As a former CPA I must comment that depreciation is a cost of owning an RV even if you choose to ignore it to make yourself feel better. If you spend $100,000 on a motorhome and you keep it 50 years until you die you still lost the use of that $100,000 for other purposes. If you don't care about that extra $100,000, that's fine, but depreciation is still a real cost to anyone wanting to get into RVs.

Actually that makes no sense. ANYTHING you buy ties that money up so you can't use it for anything else. Sad that you have to put money before anything. And a question. Who did you buy your RV for? You? or the next guy. I bought mine for me.

"Actually that makes no sense."


Seriously? I would never go onto a forum about brain surgery and offer advice on how to operate, for a pretty simple reason. I would have no idea what I was talking about. In a similar vein, here you are, arguing with an accountant, yet the concept of "Lost Opportunity Cost" is something that makes no sense to you? That is simply amazing.

You might want to grab a copy of, "the millionaire next door". It's a useful tool in explaining the difference between those that understand that a lifetime of discipline, and solid decision making, backed by solid financial education, can leave you retiring young and wealthy, on the same paycheck that most squander away. An obvious component of that success is understanding why you don't succeed by buying new toys (boats, RVs, ATVs, etc) and throw away 60% of your purchase price, in the first couple or years, in depreciation.

Obviously we dissagree. Any thing you buy takes money away from something else. Like you can go to a nice restaurant, and spend more, or got to a fast food and spend less. But then you get less. Just like you do when you buy used. It only take a little more to go first class. However. IF you want to go thru life using other people's throw aways. It's good for me. So maybe when after 10, ot 15 years of using my TT. You will step up and pay me 40 percent of the MSRP for a worn out TT. That I got ALL the good out of.
As I said. RVs don't depreciate near as much as many of you think they do. Atleast not around here. And if you have to finance. the paymment on a new one are actually lower than on a used one.

Yes I financed mine for 12 years. Just in case something happened. I wanted a cushion. Paid it off in less than 5. Truth is few real working people can pay cash for a RV. So you will pardon me if I like to have firsties instead of worn out seconds.

[jplante4]

sneakygroundbuzzard wrote:
the wife and i just bought our first TT
we bought new
we did that for a few reasons
because we wanted a new one and not a used one was the biggest factor

yes we know it depreciated as soon as we took delivery of it

we didnt want a used one. didnt like the idea of sleeping on a bed that some else has done who knows what in it.

This reason for buying new amazes me every time it comes up and it comes up in every one of these new vs. used threads

You do know that they sell mattresses separately from a motor home, right?

They also sell new toilet seats for about $10.

[TomG2]

One "New versus Used" argument is when I think back about discovering some very inept repairs on RV's and automobiles over the years. Some are easy to discover, some are not. On example was where a previous owner used a decal to cover up the fact that he had cut through an exterior stud while installing an antenna connection. I guess he figured that there were a dozen others that remained intact to carry the load.

[Lantley]

mike-s wrote:

Terryallan wrote:
I know there are MANY on her who say. NEVER buy new, always buy used RVs. Myself. I always buy new, and here is an example why.

This week we were camping beside a man who had just bought a used 2015 TT. Over the course of the trip. He found out the toilet had been frozen, and had to be repaired. Then the water heater would not work, and the fresh tank was missing the plug. the list goes on.
Best thing about his trip is that he lived close by. So he didn't have to stay in a unusable TT. As soon as he fixed one thing. He found another. Didn't get to stay even one night at the CG.

That boys and girls. Is why I always suggest you buy new.

So, he had a couple hundred buck of repairs to do. You, OTOH, could avoid that by putting your unit out of commission for months of warranty repair time, and also losing thousands of bucks in depreciation in the process.

Good choice, if time any money aren't issues. :R

Your repair logic is flawed. One can make repairs to a new unit it is not mandatory that the unit be returned to the dealer.
Nor is it a given that a used unit will not be returned to a dealership for repairs.
If you are DIY savvy you will complete the repairs yourself whether the rig is new or used.
How long the RV sits at the dealer has a lot to do with how well the dealership is run and how demanding the RV owner is.
The new used debate is not about repairs. Repairs and maintenance is an ongoing concern new or used.

[soren]

Terryallan wrote:

DallasSteve wrote:
As a former CPA I must comment that depreciation is a cost of owning an RV even if you choose to ignore it to make yourself feel better. If you spend $100,000 on a motorhome and you keep it 50 years until you die you still lost the use of that $100,000 for other purposes. If you don't care about that extra $100,000, that's fine, but depreciation is still a real cost to anyone wanting to get into RVs.

Actually that makes no sense. ANYTHING you buy ties that money up so you can't use it for anything else. Sad that you have to put money before anything. And a question. Who did you buy your RV for? You? or the next guy. I bought mine for me.

"Actually that makes no sense."


Seriously? I would never go onto a forum about brain surgery and offer advice on how to operate, for a pretty simple reason. I would have no idea what I was talking about. In a similar vein, here you are, arguing with an accountant, yet the concept of "Lost Opportunity Cost" is something that makes no sense to you? That is simply amazing.

You might want to grab a copy of, "the millionaire next door". It's a useful tool in explaining the difference between those that understand that a lifetime of discipline, and solid decision making, backed by solid financial education, can leave you retiring young and wealthy, on the same paycheck that most squander away. An obvious component of that success is understanding why you don't succeed by buying new toys (boats, RVs, ATVs, etc) and throw away 60% of your purchase price, in the first couple or years, in depreciation.

[valhalla360]

Terryallan wrote:
After reading this, and see how horrible, and stupid it is to buy new. I have to ask. Why do so many of you have to go thru life taking other peoples hand me downs, or fixing other people's trouble. Do you buy new cars??? New trucks?? Do you buy your clothes at the used clothes store? they depreciate as well you know.

I will tell you this. The smell of a new car the first time you set in it... PRICELESS, The smell of a new RV ... PRICELESS. Knowing that no one has ever slept in your bed... PRICELESS. Knowing that if any thing does happen. YOU did it, and NOT the previous owner. And in truth. And I know that many of you have chosen bad dealers. So far I haven't. But apparently many of you have. But the truth is. Knowing that everything will work when you get to the CG, Knowing that it won't leak. is ALSO priceless. and knowing that IF something does go wrong. Like loose threads, or cushions that won't stay put. Your dealer will fix it no questions ask.

Actually, we do shop goodwill for clothes and other things. Also garage sales.

You do realize, they make "new car" smell air freshener for a lot less money than actually buying a new car.

Actually, I don't care who put the first dent in it. I'd rather have the used model with a few scratches rather than obsess over putting that first scratch in a perfect rig....

As far as knowing that brand new unit won't leak...good one. I'm still laughing.

PS: Thank you for supplying the used market. Keep buying new.

[valhalla360]

Lexx wrote:

DallasSteve wrote:
As a former CPA I must comment that depreciation is a cost of owning an RV even if you choose to ignore it to make yourself feel better. If you spend $100,000 on a motorhome and you keep it 50 years until you die you still lost the use of that $100,000 for other purposes. If you don't care about that extra $100,000, that's fine, but depreciation is still a real cost to anyone wanting to get into RVs.

Have you ever considered the opportunity cost of not living your life to the fullest? You only live once and you can't take it with you.

That actually supports Steve's point.

Spending more time at the office to overpay for a new unit would by most standards not be "living your life to the fullest".

[soren]

Terryallan wrote:

gbopp wrote:

Terryallan wrote:
This week we were camping beside a man who had just bought a used 2015 TT. Over the course of the trip. He found out the toilet had been frozen, and had to be repaired. Then the water heater would not work, and the fresh tank was missing the plug. the list goes on.

That boys and girls. Is why I always suggest you buy new.

Did he tell you who did the pre-delivery inspection?
Or, are you trolling on a slow Saturday afternoon? :@

Bought it from an private seller, not a dealership. so no delivery. He picked it up at the storage lot. And no. Not trolling. Just got home from a great trip in my what was new when I bought it RV.

It is my opinion. when you buy used. You are just buying some one else's problems. Unless you know the seller well, and know the RV well. and even then it is a **** shoot.

I have bought "other people's problems", many times. My current toad was a short term lease return, with low miles, a known service history, and cost eight thousand less than invoice, when new. My current class A was owned by an elderly gentleman who bought it as his last rig. As he was taking delivery, he was finishing up a pole barn to store it in. Seven years later, he sold it for 40% of his purchase price. When I took delivery on the thing, several dealer employees described as the cleanest, nicest seven year old unit they had ever seen. It looked and performed nearly brand new, and saved me $65,000. The car and class A have both been extremely reliable, and trouble free. Unlike a lot of current scrap being rammed out the door in Elkhart, my motorhome didn't need a full year of warranty work, patching up the garbage workmanship, poor design, and failed cheap Chinese parts. In 50K miles, and three years of ownership, I have never lost a moment of use, due to breakdowns. This mirrors the last thirty years of buying used vehicles, at 25-75% less than the original purchase price, leaving hundreds of thousands in my pocket, and having as good. or better service from them, as brand new ones would of provided.

That said, it's important to me that you, and all others of a similar mind, continue to sing the praises of buying new, AND create the illusion that buying used will only end poorly. Taking advantage of HUGE depreciation, and well maintained trouble free RVs, can only happen IF somebody is willing to buy them new. So, thanks for doing your part. Don't forget to maintain your RV well, and trade it in in a few years, so you can take that sweet, sweet beating of absurd depreciation.

[dodge_guy]

I do a pre trip inspection before every trip. I run all systems so if there is an issue I can fix it at home.

New RV’s have just as many issues as used.