Camping with Dobermans

[Control_Freak]

Hello all, were new to rving,supposed to pick up our TT on Saturday. We started talking about getting a camper early last year when my oldest dog started slowing down and we didn’t want to leave her home with a sitter. Long story short, she wasn’t slowing down but extremely sick with autoimmune meningitis, she declined quickly and even though we did everything we could for her but she couldn’t fight the disease and passed away 4th of July weekend. We were absolutely devastated by her passing and out camping on the back burner.

Fast forward to now, we decided to move forward and make the leap into camping. We have an 8 yr old male And an 18 month old female Doberman. This is a breed that most people don’t know their true nature and are usually afraid of and I’m concerned that they will be prejudged based on their breed. My male, Sully is a big muscular boy weighing is at 90 lbs and is extremely intimidating to look at, but I can tell you that there hasn’t been one person who hasn’t absolutely fell in love with him once they give him a chance. My pup, Rizzo is young and still trying to figure out what is appropriate behavior. We work with her a lot and she’s almost there. I’m really big on my dogs being well behaved members of the dog community, mostly because I believe that it’s my responsibility as a dog owner to ensure they act right and don’t disturb or scare other people and because I love to train my dogs. Sully is a champion show dog and has his CGC, Rizzo is training to compete in AKC obedience and will evaluated for her CGC soon.

So my questions are...are we going to have any issues based solely on their breed? What steps can we take to make sure they are safe? Obviously don’t leave them outside unattended or off leash. How big of a problem is people/children/pets walking through others campsites?

Any other suggestions would be appreciated and I’m going to try to put some photos up of them but not sure if they’ll show up.


BC226C7D-7993-48B8-8447-4723DF8A31DF by Corinna Morris, on Flickr

343C4666-4197-474A-8BE4-203FC6EAC5C1 by Corinna Morris, on Flickr

[BCSnob]

BB_TX wrote:
Yes, you are probably more likely to be bitten by a high strung little yapper than a large dog. But where the yapper may break the skin and cause some bleeding,....

So do you consider JRTs little yappers? I think you’d find this small breed (do to the genetics of this breed) can do more damage than you’ve described.

Most pet dogs (ones not specifically bred for the breed function) no longer carry the correct complement of behavioral genes to exhibit the expected behaviors which originally defined the breed. This makes accurately predicting behaviors solely based upon appearance (how most people define breeds) difficult at best.

Find campgrounds that welcome your dogs and support them; ignore those that don’t welcome your dogs. I personally cannot help you with campground situations, in the 20 some years we’ve been RVing with dogs we’ve never stayed in a campground. We take our RV to dog events; we haven’t taken our dogs camping.

[toedtoes]

BB_TX wrote:
After all is said and done, it still comes down to a simple fact. The large powerful breeds are capable of inflicting significant physical damage IF they do bite. And no RV park owner has the time or expertise to determine the personality of every dog that may enter their park. Yes, you are probably more likely to be bitten by a high strung little yapper than a large dog. But where the yapper may break the skin and cause some bleeding, that large dog can tear flesh and muscle. I am not opposed to large breeds by any means. My Golden weighs 88 lbs. But the large dogs do require special considerations by their owners and by those who own or operate facilities in which they may enter.

I think it's more simple than that. A private park can make whatever rules about pets they want. If you don't like the rule, go elsewhere.

For public campgrounds, most usually have rules for all dogs, not breed or size specific. Again, if you don't like the rule, go elsewhere.

I don't stay at parks with breed specific rules. I rarely stay at campgrounds with overly strict rules (e.g., no dogs anywhere but the campground and roads). I prefer to stay at campgrounds that let me hike the trails with my dogs and let my dogs in the water. I prefer campgrounds that require all dogs to be leashed.

The rest is up to me. I follow the rules for the campground. I keep my dogs safe.

[BB_TX]

After all is said and done, it still comes down to a simple fact. The large powerful breeds are capable of inflicting significant physical damage IF they do bite. And no RV park owner has the time or expertise to determine the personality of every dog that may enter their park. Yes, you are probably more likely to be bitten by a high strung little yapper than a large dog. But where the yapper may break the skin and cause some bleeding, that large dog can tear flesh and muscle. I am not opposed to large breeds by any means. My Golden weighs 88 lbs. But the large dogs do require special considerations by their owners and by those who own or operate facilities in which they may enter.

[toedtoes]

I would also point out that most problems aren't due to "aggression". Bat-dog is not aggressive. She is afraid. Her fear is what drives her. If she feels threatened or cornered, she will react first think later. So making sure she doesn't feel threatened or cornered is my job.

Eye contact is a big one for her. It's too intense for her. I have a friend who joins us camping a lot. This friend had a dog as a kid, but has never been around them otherwise. When they first met, Bat-dog barked at her. My friend barked back jokingly. Bat-dog did not approve. For years, Bat-dog would not go near my friend and would bark non-stop at her. I kept giving my friend suggestions on how to approach and be around Bat-dog. She often felt she was completely hopeless around dogs. It took a long time, but my friend has learned a lot. Now, Bat-dog will let her scratch the tummy and doesn't bark at her constantly. Sometimes, I will hear my friend say "oh I'm sorry, I looked at you". Bat-dog will even lay her head on my friend's leg. My friend is no longer afraid of Bat-dog because she understands how HER actions affect Bat-dog. And she can approach other dogs with more self-assurance because she can better read the dog's signals. Fortunately, through it all, she has had Moose-dog who thinks it's his his job to protect and keep her safe. But even with him, she had to learn to talk to him - let him know when she was just going away for a moment or actually leaving because he would stand guard waiting for her to return for hours.

Last year, I was listening to the radio and they mentioned a new study with dogs. I texted my friend the results and she said "oh yes they do!" . The study found that dogs hold grudges...

[toedtoes]

Years ago, I was at a grand opening for a leashless park. One of the top trainers in the area was there with his dog. As we stood outside the enclosed area watching people with their dogs unleashed in the parking lot, the main park area, and the leashless area, Kevin said "this is the stupidest thing I've ever seen. No matter how well trained my dog is, I would never let him offleash like this." His point was that no matter how well trained HIS dog is, he cannot guarantee that of every dog they meet. It doesn't matter that your dog will stay at your side or stay on the mat or stay at attention. That other dog could approach your dog and a fight ensues. And without a leash on your dog, you will have to stick your hand into the fight to pull your dog out. Shortly afterwards, we saw a woman walking through the dogs with a cat on her shoulder and he said "no that's the stupidest thing I've ever seen".

When I had Dog, we were on our front lawn practicing stays. She was in a stand stay. A dog that was walking down the street with its owner (unleashed) ran up onto the lawn and literally bulldozed Dog over. I had Dog on a leash and was able to lead her away as this other dog kept trying to knock her down. The owner was chasing along behind trying to grab its collar. Another time at a leashless park, I had just walked inside with Dog when a large chocolate lab walked up and peed on her. The owner stood there laughing. Dog was still on her leash - we turned around and walked out. Dog was an extremely well trained and well behaved dog, but I can't control the behaviors of other dogs or people so I make sure I have a leash on my dogs regardless of their obedience level.

[D_E_Bishop]

Thanks to toedtoes and Control_Freak, most of my approach I learned from watching, both real life meetings with animals and PBS programs on wolves and other group or pack animals. I try real hard to let dogs find me, if there is any sign of timidness or aggression I let the owner lead what I do.

I didn't know about eye contact but do try to avoid head touches.

I will say that I feel in the last ten or fifteen years, owners have been better trained at training their animals, we appreciate what you have learned. And recently we met a camper walking his very big, like St. Bernard big dog, at Three Rivers Casino in Coos Bay, OR. He and I started talking, mostly how is it living with a dog who essentially bigger than he was in a motor home. The dog was in the left side heel position but was looking from me to his owner and when I ask if I could approach the dog the gentleman nodded to me and said, "OK" to the dog and gestured to me. Well this well mannered monster was just one huge lover guy. He nuzzled and rubbed my legs with his head but never licked, just kind of smiled and was happy to greet me. He never took his eyes off his human for more than a few seconds and soon went back to the left side and laid down and closed his eyes. When we were done discussing a new campground being built a few miles away and said so long, the owner softly said his dogs name, the dog got up and they walked off.

[Deb_and_Ed_M]

I have been lucky enough to camp next to a few Dobies as we traveled - in every case, they were exceptionally-trained. Arrived once to see two sitting loose on the patio rug with their owner, and thought "uh-oh". Before we even set up, I went over, introduced myself, admitted that we had an idiot, rescued Cattle Dog with a really bad attitude towards big dark-colored dogs. The owner laughed, said he understood, said his dogs are trained to not leave the patio rug. I kept my idiot dog from seeing the Dobies, and we had a great weekend!

Th Trailer Life campground guide book used to tell what campgrounds had pet restrictions; either (B) breed, (S) size, or (N) number. The OP will have to watch for the (B) parks, but aside from that - happy camping! And on the "plus" side - Dobies are one of those breeds that people ususally don't send their kids, en masse, to "go over and pet". At least you won't become the campground babysitter.....LOL!

[RandACampin]

Rots, Pitsbulls, Dobermans and others have a bad rep for a reason. All dogs will attack in the right circumstances, some however are more prone to it than others. Dogs were bred for reasons, some for war and attack....you cannot take these insticts out of them.
There are lists for a reason.

[Pawz4me]

I think these size wars are beyond silly.

Years ago I had a young Rottie. She was attacked once by a mini Doxie. Thankfully by that point I'd gotten her reasonably well trained (not perfect by a long shot), and she just looked at me while the Doxie was hanging off her neck. It was kind of funny in hindsight, as he was of course never a serious threat to her. She outweighed him by about 70 pounds. Her head was almost as big as his entire body.

Now I have a Shih Tzu. He's been rushed (not attacked, thank goodness) by several pitbulls, an ACD, a GSD and a couple of hounds. Those are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head. It's an all-too-common occurrence in campgrounds. In the heat of the moment and in hindsight these are most definitely not funny. They're very scary, as the larger dogs could quickly and easily kill him. Thankfully the Tzu is unflappable and quietly and calmly stands his ground and gives them a "What is your problem, stupid" look. I'd like to take credit in the training department (like all of our dogs, he's been trained extensively), but it's mostly just his nature. I really should have done therapy work with him.

I do not think all little dogs are untrained yappers (which is silly) nor do I think all bigger dogs are uncontrollably aggressive (which is also silly).

All of our reports here are anecdotal, and for most they're colored by the person's usually very obvious bias, and certainly by the size of the dog the poster currently owns. It gets tedious. Humans are silly and nonsensical most of the time.

OP, you will encounter some RV parks that don't allow your dogs. But I don't think there are so many of them that it will present a huge problem. In our experience most people in RV parks are dog friendly and don't have the biases that are often displayed on here. Over the years we have RV'd with well trained dogs of all sizes and have never met anyone who seemed put off by any of them. Good luck!

[Control_Freak]

gemsworld wrote:
"It's really not about the breed it's about the owner!"

I would be rich if I got a nickel every time I heard someone, usually a Pitbull or Rottweiler owner, say this.

This is because people are constantly blaming certain breeds based on the actions of other dogs, so those people who have those breeds but are friendly are constantly having to defend their dog.

[Control_Freak]

toedtoes wrote:

D.E.Bishop wrote:
Generally the only dogs I am afraid of are the ones off leash or on those damnable recoil type. But I do have a courtesy questions from dog owners point of view, I always ask if it is okay to approach a dog. I am 6 feet tall and bending over a dog can appear to the dog to be an aggressive move, so once the dogs person says it is okay, I kneel before reaching for the dog. I feel that I've reduced my size and shown the dog I'm not a threat. After the dog sniffs and get tired of that I will gently touch the dog and then rise and talk to the person.

So what say you owners, is that a reasonable approach to putting you dog(s) at ease?

Thank you! That is perfect! My Bat-dog is one who gets scared when people lean over her. Your approach is great. Even if you don't kneel, just as long as you don't lean over the dog is very helpful. I always tell folks to let Bat-dog approach them and don't make eye contact. It puts her at ease and let's her know it's her choice whether to make contact or not.

Folks like you make it much easier to teach Bat-dog that people are good.

I don’t know how I feel about the kneeling down, I know you’re tall and you don’t want to lean over but when you kneel down you’re getting eye level with the dog which makes it easier to make eye contact which is a no no, also you’re putting your face I. The striking zone, so god forbid that dog bit you it’s going to be in the face or neck. I totally agree with letting the dog approach you and not the other way around, this way the dogs is making the decision to interact with you and doesn’t feel cornered or threatened. Let them sniff you before reaching and don’t pet them on the top of the head but rather gently under the chin.

I have a rule that my dogs are not allowed to approach people without my say so, so if I’m out and about and I stop to talk to someone I expect them to remain relaxed at my side and only if I tell them to say hello are they allowed to go up to people. I do this because I don’t want people to get scared and I want my dogs to know them I’m in control of the situation. I also, don’t force them to interact with people if they don’t want to, so for example if you say Can I pet your dog, I say sure and tell my dog to say hello, if they go up to the person great, if they choose to stay by my side that’s fine too.

[Lantley]

gemsworld wrote:
"It's really not about the breed it's about the owner!"

I would be rich if I got a nickel every time I heard someone, usually a Pitbull or Rottweiler owner, say this.

My experience has been different. More than once my dog has been approached/attacked by some aggressive yapping ankle biter.
Some owner that has very little control over their dog.
Or then there are those who try to contain there 4 yappers in a portable plastic pen, that collapses and lets all the dogs escape and come chasing after my dog as we walk the CG on a leash. Again it's about the owner.
Those of us with larger dogs tend to make more effort to see to it that our dogs are secure vs. the little yappers who are kept in makeshift pens or on 25' leashes.
My dog has never been approached aggressively by a loose large dog or a dog from the restricted lists.
But we have been approach more times than I can count by small and medium sized dogs that the owners cannot control.

[Community Alumni]

"It's really not about the breed it's about the owner!"

I would be rich if I got a nickel every time I heard someone, usually a Pitbull or Rottweiler owner, say this.

[Lantley]

Seattle Steve wrote:

Lantley wrote:

Ivylog wrote:
Get a Million $ insurance policy guaranteeing coverage for any and all damages they might cause...I would then let them into my RV Park as that would make up for voiding my insurance.

No need for a policy you keep your vacancy and I will keep my money.
I know I can find another park without breed restrictions to accept my money, I hope/trust you can find another camper to fill your vacancy.
It's a win for both of us no policy required.
I've spent thousands in camping fees over the years, unfortunately none of it went to your CG. Unfortunately your breed restricting policies are restricting your revenues along with the dogs.

You are only seeing one side of the issue. As a non-pet person, I always check out the pet rules at potential parks and choose the ones with the strictest rules. So, in my case, they are gaining business because of their rules. I'm pretty sure there are far more people RVing without pets than there are people RVing with dogs on the aggressive breeds list, so the parks with stricter rules are going to be the winners.

The fallacy is that there is an aggressive breed list.
I can understand you are not a dog person,but to believe we can somehow judge or determine a dog's aggression based on its breed is ridiculous.
We cannot determine a dog's aggression no more than we can determine a humans aggression.
If you choose no pet parks maybe your free of aggressive dogs.
But if dogs are allowed than there is a chance some idiot owner may have brought an aggressive dog to the CG. Breed restrictions do not eliminate the potential for aggressive dogs.
It's really not about the breed it's about the owner!
Since we certainly can not judge an owner/person by looking at them, we also cannot determine the dogs aggression.
When it comes to winners and losers, I'm still spending my camping $$$$ somewhere. I'm just not spending it at the breed restricted CG. I'm not sitting home with my Doberman with no place to go.
However a CG with breed restrictions is losing/refusing me as a customer. Hopefully they can replace me as easily as I can replace them.
AT the end of the day it is their loss not mine.

[toedtoes]

D.E.Bishop wrote:
Generally the only dogs I am afraid of are the ones off leash or on those damnable recoil type. But I do have a courtesy questions from dog owners point of view, I always ask if it is okay to approach a dog. I am 6 feet tall and bending over a dog can appear to the dog to be an aggressive move, so once the dogs person says it is okay, I kneel before reaching for the dog. I feel that I've reduced my size and shown the dog I'm not a threat. After the dog sniffs and get tired of that I will gently touch the dog and then rise and talk to the person.

So what say you owners, is that a reasonable approach to putting you dog(s) at ease?

Thank you! That is perfect! My Bat-dog is one who gets scared when people lean over her. Your approach is great. Even if you don't kneel, just as long as you don't lean over the dog is very helpful. I always tell folks to let Bat-dog approach them and don't make eye contact. It puts her at ease and let's her know it's her choice whether to make contact or not.

Folks like you make it much easier to teach Bat-dog that people are good.