14F freezer is good enough

[Almot]

Have been having these doubts for some time, 0F/-18C "recommended" by FDA and similar Canadian health authority, while my meat and fish remain quite hard and I am still alive with freezer temps ranging from 10F/-12C to 7F/-14C.

So I did some research.

At 14F/-10C fatty fish remains edible for 2 months, and lean fish - 3 months: blue line on the chart. 2 months seems like a long trip to me.

Was more difficult to find data for frozen meat, though here is a 60-days study of buffalo meat at 40F/4C and 14F/-10C, long and rather technical article. They found that 4 days in fridge and 30 days in freezer at 0F/10C is still good. See the Conclusion. From the tables it follows that the microbial activity in freezer at 14F/-10C was DECREASING with time, all the way to the day 60.

So, - forget FDA guidelines 0F/18C. These are temps that will keep your food from spoiling indefinitely. You are not going to live indefinitely. If your fridge keeps 40F/4C, and freezer 14F/-10C - this is enough for most vacation trips and more than enough for a weekend trip. Don't lose your sleep over that. Manufacturers have detailed specs that consumers don't usually see - like max 0F in the center of freezing chamber and max 14F at the door, and even those max values you might not get in real life. I am not talking about deep freeze chests that can do -22F, those are different.

[westend]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Dill, parsley, oregano, thyme, et al

We used to use this same "water/ice-packing" for freezing fresh water fish. It worked extremely well.

[MrWizard]

So, - forget FDA guidelines 0F/18C. These are temps that will keep your food from spoiling indefinitely. You are not going to live indefinitely. If your fridge keeps 40F/4C, and freezer 14F/-10C - this is enough for most vacation trips and more than enough for a weekend trip. Don't lose your sleep over that. Manufacturers have detailed specs that consumers don't usually see - like max 0F in the center of freezing chamber and max 14F at the door, and even those max values you might not get in real life. I am not talking about deep freeze chests that can do -22F, those are different.

a person must remember
FDA guidelines were not set for RV's on vacation
guidelines were set for HOME 'deep freeze', YES for 'indefinite' storage so you could keep food 6 months or even a year

so a snow bird gone for 4~6 months or a full timer, would do good to remember and use the FDA guidelines

while those on a weekend trip, it is Not so critical, as they will eat the food
unless of course the are bring home the 'fish/game' in which case it should be frozen rock hard as soon as possible, to prevent possible spoilage

[bigfootford]

I have found that the warmer the fridge section is, from leaving the door open and putting stuff in that is warm, and if the freezer is at 0-15 the fridge will be in cooling mode for the fridge section. Since the thermocouple is located on the fins in the fridge section.
As the fridge section cools the freezer section cools even further. Slow though.

I always have a bag of Ice that I keep in there for mass...If we are really loaded in the freezer section then I will remove it.

Fact or fiction, I do know this works for me..
I record my fridge temp 2 times a day while on the road and camping etc.
I have these in my home and camper. They work great. They record the lowest the fridge has been since the last time you have reset it. So I can see what the current temp is and where it was since I reset it in the morning after recording.



From:

http://www.partshelf.com/ci00985.html

Jim

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Dill, parsley, oregano, thyme, et al

[Almot]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
TIP. Freeze FRESH herbs in a solid block of ice. Let melt then air dry on paper towels. Cannot tell from fresh.

You mean greens like salad or spinach?

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Vacuum packing meat REALLY helps stop the degradation caused by freezer burn. Freeze meat HARD first. Then vacuum pack and re-freeze. I am going to make a stainless 3-gallon container with fitting that can be evacuated with an air conditioning vacuum pump. For my coffee beans. A home-style vacuum system is a joke compared to a real system. TIP. Freeze FRESH herbs in a solid block of ice. Let melt then air dry on paper towels. Cannot tell from fresh.

[Almot]

DiskDoctr wrote:
What about adding unfrozen food to the 17F? How long does it take to freeze and how does that affect the foods around it?

It was 14F - not 17. And, even if you don't freeze it at all, 40F will keep fish edible 2 days and meat - 4 days, according to FDA and their Canadian counterpartner. But I agree that we should not trust the authorities 🙂

[DiskDoctr]

Ahhh...if only our foods were free from significant contamination. Then more 'relaxed' preservation styles may be safe. But the stuff that passes as 'safe' consumer foods these days :R

So what happens to your 17F freezer when you open it for 30 seconds to get something out? What is the recovery time to get back to 17F? Now what happens on a 98F day when the A/C isn't running?

What about adding unfrozen food to the 17F? How long does it take to freeze and how does that affect the foods around it?

I can see where a single piece of already frozen food held at a CONSTANT 17F can maintain for an extended period. But that isn't the reality of how most fridge/freezers are used. They are opened, unfrozen items are added, frozen items are removed, used, then returned, and even the cycling of the cooling system doesn't always keep it at an exact constant temp.

In theory, sounds okay. But in practice, I wouldn't recommend it 😉

[Almot]

Chris Bryant wrote:
If the unit can only achieve in the teens in the freezer, that means there is not enough liquid ammonia being produced. If there is not enough liquid ammonia in the freezer section, there sure as heck will not be enough in the lower section.

OK. Reduce the volume of lower section, leaving the cooling fins of the same size, and then there will be enough coolant for the lower section, no?

In 12V compressor fridges they often put the freezer at the bottom, for easier flow of the coolant, but in ammonia machine this probably wouldn't work.

[wolfe10]

Chris is absolutely correct.

[Chris_Bryant]

Almot wrote:

Chris Bryant wrote:
I'll say that in an absorption refrigerator, seventeen degrees in the freezer translates to unacceptable in the fresh food compartment.

Maybe.

Not maybe- definitely. The only way it would not be true is if you simply left the freezer door open. If the unit can only achieve in the teens in the freezer, that means there is not enough liquid ammonia being produced. If there is not enough liquid ammonia in the freezer section, there sure as heck will not be enough in the lower section.

[Almot]

Chris Bryant wrote:
I'll say that in an absorption refrigerator, seventeen degrees in the freezer translates to unacceptable in the fresh food compartment.

Maybe. And it is not much better in compressor fridges without independent temperature regulation in freezer and fridge. Majority of 12V RV/marine fridges have just one common thermostat for fridge and freezer, even if it's a 2-door model. So you have to waste energy on keeping freezer cooler than you need, only to keep the fridge at 40F.

[Gene_Ginny]

sh410 wrote:
But what about ice cream!

My freezer runs -12F to 0F so I need a hammer and chisel to get at my Ben & Jerrys Chunky Monkey. :B

[Almot]

My point was - for practical purposes you don't need to have 0F in the freezer, and often you don't have it, by the freezer design.

A weekend camper doesn't even need a freezer, 40F fridge is enough. Here is from FDA. Fresh meat at 40F: 3-5 days, poultry and fish: 1-2 days. FDA doesn't specify what kind of meat, but recommended storage time is the same as poor fellows in India have established for buffalo meat.

As to the freezing, according to FDA, those recommended 0F storage times are for quality only, because at this temperature food remains safe indefinitely. When you are not going to store food indefinitely, you don't need 0F. It's nice when you can have it, but you don't need to.

[Chris_Bryant]

I'll say that in an absorption refrigerator, seventeen degrees in the freezer translates to unacceptable in the fresh food compartment.