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20 Amp Circuit to Support 2nd A/C Unit

Ron_Nielson
Explorer
Explorer
I'm pretty sure one of you have already done this the easiest way, so no need for me to reinvent the wheel, right?

My trailer is a 30 amp system, so I believe the easiest/cheapest method is to add another 20 amp circuit specifically to run the 2nd a/c unit I plan to add.

I considered just adding a 20 amp extension cord plugged directly into park power, but I believe most parks will have the 30 amp circuit and the 20 amp circuit fed from the same 30 amp source and that may not be enough to run 2 units (and other electrical appliances) at the same time. Of course, at the time you are running both a/c units it is 105 * and it's going to be that way for hours, so is everyone else around you and the available volts/amps may not be up to standards, so I feel it is important to have a setup that is at least somewhat tolerant of the situation. Some have told me that the shore power 30 amp circuit and 20 amp circuit are fed from different sources. True? What I have been able to read about is that modern 50-30-20 amp service has one source for the 50 amp service, another source feeding the 30 and 20 am services.

Option #1
Starting from the park's power to the a/c unit, perhaps use a 50 amp to double 30 amp dogbone from the park power pedestal, 30 amp extension cord to the trailer thru-wall connector (has to be added), add breaker box with 20 amp breaker, then hardwire 20 amp circuit to the a/c unit.

Option #2
Change out my 30 amp cord to a 50 amp cord. Use one leg of the service to tie into the existing 30 amp power center; use the other leg adding a separate breaker box with 20 amp breaker to power the 2nd a/c unit. If I happen to be at a park with only 30 amp service,I could use a 50 to 30 adapter. Just have to be sure that when wiring the 50 amp cord to power center, I use the side that will be powered thru the 30 amp adapter. (Do all adapters do this the same way?)

A good thing about option #1 is 1) I have 50 amp service when I need to run my 2nd a/c and 2)when I don't need both a/c units, I just plug my existing 30 amp cord into the 30 amp service. A down side to this is that the 50 to 30 dogbone is not cheap ($100+)compared to other adapters I have purchased and I have to add the thru-wall connecter. For option #2, changing out the cord to 50 amp has it's costs (50 amp power cord is $125+) and handling the 50 amp cord year round has it's downsides, big, bulky, doesn't want to bend in cold weather, takes more room to store (I will probably have to make a different storage area for it), etc.

So who has done this or something similar and would offer suggestions or improvements or alternatives?
28 REPLIES 28

Ron_Nielson
Explorer
Explorer
And that is exactly my plan. Thanks to all for the help, discussion, and explanations. Now I just need to get the other unit ordered.

myredracer
Explorer II
Explorer II
IMO, the executive summary answer is to install a 20 amp power inlet on the side of your camper and plug into the 20 amp pedestal recept. This should include a 20 amp extension cord and 20 amp romex inside to the AC unit.

The full text wordy (my apologies) explanation of why is here:

The current edition of the NEC only requires an RV park to have 20% of the pedestals to be 50 amps. In 2002, the NEC only required 5% @ 50 amps. These are the minimum requirements and installing more than 20% gets very expensive due to the cost of all the extra copper, conduit, etc. so unless you intend to use only high end RV parks that charge a premium rate to cover the higher installation cost, you are going to only find a max. of 20% of the RV park at 50 amps. And this is at newer RV parks.

In the height of the RV-ing season, the competition for any 50 amp pedestals is extreme and you will have trouble getting one. You can spend a LOT of $$ on upgrading to 50 amps and then not find a 50 amp pedestal at a CG/RV park. I have seen many high end MHs with a 50/30 adapter at the pedestal and then a separate extension cord running out a window to the 20 amp receptacle... In addition to MHs, nowadays there's lots of FWs & TTs with 50 amps as well. RV manufacturers craftily do not tell folks about the scarcity of 50 amp recepta. in RV parks.

"Modern" pedestals are loop fed with heavy ampacity (current) conductors, like say 200 amps (depends on number of pedestals on a run). A pedestal with a 30 amp and a 20 amp receptacle on it will be supplied off a large amapacity feeder cable like the 200 amps. Unless every other RV on that run are running 2 ACs and have their 30 or 50 amp services running full tilt, you should normally not have an issue.

Older RV parks (like in 60s & 70s) typically used a "star" network with a large feeder cable run to a remote panelboard in a grouping of RV sites, and then each site has a 30A sub-feeder with a code demand factor of 3600 watts (30 amps). Using a 30 + 20 amp recept. simultaneously at one of these pedestals will likely be a problem.

The NEC also has minimum conductor (wire) sizing depending on the number of pedestals connected on a feeder. For ex., 7 - 9 sites on a feeder run has a demand factor of 55%. The 2014 & 2002 codes are the same on this. If everyone ran full tilt (30 amps) on a feeder with 7 sites, the "main" breaker (probably 200 amps in this case) supplying this feeder back at the RV park main service location, would trip.

All of the above assumes the voltage is at or very close to 120 volts. As voltage drops, and it usually does in RV parks in the summer due to all the AC units running, your current will go up along with everyone else's. Impossible to predict what will happen and depends on circumstances at each specific RV park, the number of users and the park's wiring design. When some say that they can run 2 ACs on a 30 amp service, that will be close to 120 volts. Using an autoformer will help, but not if a lot of other RV-ers using pedestals on the same feeder are using one.

If you run the 2nd AC off the 20 amp recept. in a pedestal, if you roll into an RV park and have a choice of 30 or 50 amp pedestals, go for the 50 amps and use a 50/30 adapter. This can reduce the amount of voltage as the feeder cable is heavier gauge to accommodate the higher 50 amp current.

An AC unit draws up to 6 times its running current when starting up. A 30 amp breaker may trip sometimes on startup. If you have other things turned on or plugged in, try turning them off. If at a marginal point, this may enable you to run the 2nd AC. Damage to AC units will occur in the range of 102 - 105 volts. If voltage is getting low like say 108 or so, forget about trying to run the 2nd AC. Running a 2nd AC off the 20 amp pedestal recept. will NOT help if the CG voltage gets really low.

The last thing to be aware of is that a 30 amp breaker does not trip the instant it reaches 30 amps. These breakers have a standard inverse time-current characteristic as shown in the graph below. More readable image here. A breaker will continue to operate longer under a small overload and will trip faster under a higher overload. For example, the graph shows that at 45 amps, the breaker will run for somewhere between 100 & 400 seconds before it trips or for approx. 200 - 1,000 seconds at 38 amps. What this means is that you can run a MW or a toaster for a minute or two and be fine. However - depends on the age of a CG pedestal breaker and it's use/abuse.

If you go for the 20 amp power inlet, you might consider installing a 20 amp SPDT switch and a dedicated 15/20A T-slot recept. inside somewhere. This way, in cooler weather when not using the AC units, you have the ability to plug in a high wattage appliance and not worry about tripping a 30 amp breaker.

Caveat: Staying at a "modern" CG/RV park (done to more recent NEC code) and using a separate 20 amp power inlet to feed an AC unit is still not a guarantee that you will have no issues with running 2 ACs, but it will greatly improve your chances of having success. Choosing a site closest to the park's main electrical service (or near a pad-mounted transformer) can also help (less voltage drop). Also a good idea to check the pedestal voltage beforehand - if it's already marginal, it's only going to get worse when you plug in. Having a permanent voltage monitor inside is a good idea. I have an LED readout in our living area and can see it regularly go up and down like a yo-yo.

enblethen
Nomad
Nomad
Me!
We switched back to a stove top style percolator for coffee.
We do not have an electric element in water heater, we have a standard microwave, not a big one or a convection style.
Keep AC unit clean so it does work too hard, use supplemental fans to move the AC cool air around.

Bud
USAF Retired
Pace Arrow


2003 Chev Ice Road Tracker

kellertx5er
Explorer
Explorer
enblethen wrote:
... Chances of your rig maxing out the 30 is not likely.


Really? Is there anyone who has NOT maxed out their 30A rig? A/C + coffee pot + converter will do it.
Keller TX
'19 Chevy 2500HD 6.0L
'09 Outback Sydney 321FRL 5er
SUPPORT TEXAS STATE PARKS

houstonstroker
Explorer
Explorer
Yes installed in the bedroom. Non ducted unit fairly noisy, wifey actually likes white noise. We only used it during the day.
2016 Dynamax Force HD Super C

Ron_Nielson
Explorer
Explorer
Most a/c units are really pretty noisy. How is this new unit? Did you install in the bedroom?

houstonstroker
Explorer
Explorer
The second AC I added was an Atwood Air Command AC-135 with 16000 BTU equivalent. This AC is 2000 watt generator friendly and my Honda had no problem starting and running this AC.
2016 Dynamax Force HD Super C

Ron_Nielson
Explorer
Explorer
greenrvgreen wrote:
Lowes has some very small breaker boxes that can be used to protect your aux line. If you're hankering for 30A you can feed it to a small box and then break out two 20A's internally. As said, there are (very expensive) adapters to go from 50A to double 30A, but IMO you'll still get the most mileage out of 20A aux service.

30A or 20A, IMO the real value of the aux is that a portable gennie or low-capacity source can be ADDED to your shore source (or internal gennie)


I understand. I hadn't thought about powering the 2nd a/c with a genny. My trailer has an onboard 3600 watt Onan LPG Genny, main air is 13.5K and I plan to add a 9.6K 2nd unit . Could probably power the 9.6 with my Homda if not too high in altitude. Good info.

CA_Traveler
Explorer III
Explorer III
For hot summer days we seek 50A sites. For winter days I added a new circuit and 2 plugs for ceramic heaters. It plugs into the unused engine block plug or I can run an extension cord to the pedestal when we're at 30A.
2009 Holiday Rambler 42' Scepter with ISL 400 Cummins
750 Watts Solar Morningstar MPPT 60 Controller
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland

Bob

houstonstroker
Explorer
Explorer
I have two 30 amp cords. One is plugged into the 50 amp outlet and one into the 30 amp outlet. I have a separate breaker box inside the trailer with a 20 amp breaker and then appropriate sized wire to my new Atwood air Command AC.
2016 Dynamax Force HD Super C

Ron_Nielson
Explorer
Explorer
Tell me about the cord that you used to power your 20 amp breaker. You say you plugged it into a 30 amp service? With adapter or just straight 30 amp cord?

houstonstroker
Explorer
Explorer
I just installed a second Ac on my 5th wheel last month. Separate breaker box inside, 20 amp. We used it over the 4th in Galveston, Texas. Used my adapter and plugged the 30 amp coach cable into the 50 amp outlet. Plugged my second AC into the 30 amp outlet. That still left a 20 amp outlet unused. Worked great and turned the second unit off at night. In the fall and winter the AC and will not be used.
2016 Dynamax Force HD Super C

greenrvgreen
Explorer
Explorer
Lowes has some very small breaker boxes that can be used to protect your aux line. If you're hankering for 30A you can feed it to a small box and then break out two 20A's internally. As said, there are (very expensive) adapters to go from 50A to double 30A, but IMO you'll still get the most mileage out of 20A aux service.

30A or 20A, IMO the real value of the aux is that a portable gennie or low-capacity source can be ADDED to your shore source (or internal gennie)

Ron_Nielson
Explorer
Explorer
The thing I like about using the 20 amp feed from the pedestal to the 2nd a/c unit is that you have the 20 amp pedestal breaker protecting the line there. If you feed this from the 50-30-30 dogbone, the only breaker between source and 2nd a/c unit is 50 amps and that's not enough to protect the a/c unit. The other 30amp leg is protected by the power center in the RV.

One other thing I didn't attempt to address is the protection from the 30 amp hard wired surge guard now in the trailer. This will do nothing to protect the 20 amp 2nd a/c unit circuit. And unless I purchase an additional protector, it will remain that way. I do have a TRC digital line monitor that will alert me audibly if I have low voltage and will know if the hard wired surge protector cuts off power to the rest of the trailer.