Absorption fridge tests and new safety device

I doubt it too, especially in their current legal situation. Any changes now would be tantamount to an admission that their designs were deficient to begin with.

I was merely lamenting that neither of the major RV fridge makers bothered to make an inexpensive and simple improvement that could have eliminated leveling concerns for RV owners. A lack of innovation that is sadly typical of RV appliance makers. RV builders buy their appliances for every RV made, regardless of quality, so they have no incentive to ever make improvements or spend money on R&D.

Gary: You are using logic and I am afraid that Norcold is a company with no common sense and certainly no business sense. I doubt they will ever ad anything to the 1200.

Moisheh

I should clarify what I learned during the ARP field testing and the "long term damage" claim.

It became evident that the cooling unit functions perfectly fine until the tilt reaches a point where there is insufficient return flow to the boiler, and then the boiler temperature skyrockets past the point where temperature damage (crystallization of the sodium chromate) begins to occur. That degree of tilt is not something the RV owner can readily determine and it differs by fridge make/model and the direction of the tilt, so there is no useful "rule of thumb" except to keep it as level as possible. Most of us encounter some brief periods of off-level operation during travel, during rest or fuel stops, checking in at a campground office, etc. and each of these may trigger a high temperature episode. It's a classic "death of 1000 cuts", so some RV owners will never accumulate enough "cuts" to cause a total failure while others might reach the critical point fairly quickly.

So, those who say they don't have problem with off-level operation or high boiler temperatures may indeed be right. The concern is that none of us really know where we currently stand with respect to the damage threshold or how often we will add more high temperature events in the future. With an ARP doing both the monitoring and preventing an over-temperature condition, this source of potential future failure is eliminated. The value of that level of protection is something only you can decide.

The thing that bothers me the most is that the fridge makers could have easily and cheaply built in this level of boiler management and off-level protection. All the RV fridges made in the last 20+ years have circuit boards that could easily include the monitoring function and the temperature sensor for the boiler is only a few dollars in mass production quantities. The increment to the fridge selling price would be tiny, if any. If Norcold had built in ARP-like monitoring, they would not now be pouring millions of dollars into the 1200-series fire recall and compensation for victims of the failures. Dometic has had similar fridge issues, though not on the same scale that Norcold has had. It seems to me this was all preventable.

I'm not convinced of long term damage with even modest off-level operation.

I see it as insurance and no concerns when MH is off-level. There have been a number of people that said their 30 year old fridge is still working fine. Is that the same argument as saying "I don't need seat belts, haven't gone through the windshield yet"? We all agree **** happens.

I'm presently boondocking in an arroyo on the beach in Baja. I got here late in the afternoon and didn't feel like leveling the MH at that time. With ARP I can stay off-level without worry.

Sal

brincker wrote:

There is solid science, backed with years of experimentation & testing, that shows that long term damage will accumulate with even modest off-level operation.

I'm the guy who wrote that piece on irv2.com and have been involved in testing of the device in real world use.

I don't know if everybody needs an ARP or not - I discussed that very point in a follow-up to the original message. Nobody says your fridge is going to roll over and die if you don't get one of these devices, just like your wiring isn't automatically going to burn up if you don't have a surge protector, or your engine isn't going to immediately blow up if you don't change the oil at 3000 miles. But we do know that a percentage of RV fridges fail prematurely, and that a percentage of those actually catch fire when failure occurs. Managing the boiler temperature to stay within the optimal range in all operating scenarios is intended to make sure your fridge has a long and happy life. And in doing so, it should also provide a safety shutdown in the event something goes seriously wrong.It's a better way of doing things.

There is solid science, backed with years of experimentation & testing, that shows that long term damage will accumulate with even modest off-level operation. You can learn more about that by reviewing the videos on Absorption Refrigeration on the healthyrvrefrigerator.com site.

I know Paul Unmack and his wife. Both are fully-qualified mechanical engineers, licensed and experienced in the design and building of industrial process control equipment and applications. This is definitely not a gadget invented by a backyard mechanic.

Chris Bryant wrote:

Francesca Knowles wrote:

Chris Bryant wrote:
Pay me now or pay me later :) If a 10 year lifespan is fine on a machine with no moving parts, fine. If you want it to last much longer (and not burn down in the mean time), it's an inexpensive device.
Cheap insurance, as it were.

The O.E. fridge in my much-used 1978 trailer has lasted thirty-five years. So far.

Yep- and there is no way in the world a new model will last that long. If you can convince Dometic and Norcold to go back to the heavier tubing and separate perc tube a new one might last like an old one.

Of course the cost would be way more than the ARP control.

Does anyone know what year Norcold went to the thinner tubing? I camped with a guy with a 1973 class C Winnebago with no levelers, and looked at his tubing and it looked like a spiral wrap going over his tubing that was slightly thicker than mine. Mine is a 1996.

My "what part of the fridge are you going to trust as 'level'" question was somewhat facetious, as I'm a "close enough" kind of guy. My class C fridge was 27 years old and still going strong when I sold it and bought the 5er. It was always leveled " close enough" with a bullseye on the floor of the fridge.

pnichols wrote:
What's really needed is the mounting of RV refrigerators on gimbal mechanisms just like the drink holders on boats. The refrig would always be level when camped, going down the road, and when parked along curbs in cities/towns.

It's a "no-brainer" to mount RV refrigerators this way accept for two gotchas ... it would take a tiny bit of genuine design work by RV manufacturers and a little more money on the buyers part.

Don't forget the third gotcha... More space would be needed for the fridge.

Sounds good to me. I'll give it a try.

Sal

pianotuna wrote:
Hi Gdetrailer,

For a self propelled it makes more sense to have the levels visible from the driver's seat.

Yep.

Thats why I mentioned that mounting the levels outside on a Motor Home would NOT work too well.

The point being though is there is no excuse at all to not be able to level the fridge barring you are not parked on a mountain cliff (think Long, Long trailer movie).

But the main take away of my opening post is the mere fact that there HAS been a lot of research and development on just what does happen when the fridge is not level. The data they have collected really is important to anyone who owns a absorbtion fridge.

The ARP device has potential in reducing overheating of the boiler which should allow folks to GET 20 or more years of operation like the OLDER units USED to get.

The price of the device is PEANUTS compared to the cost to replace the CU or even the entire fridge.

An additional bonus feature... The ARP device turns off the fridge well before the 700 degree Norcold "safety" black box. The black box is for CATASTROPHIC FAILURE detection and too me at 700 degrees that IS well above the point of ignition of any combustible product like paneling.

I have no vested interest in the ARP, but I am reporting to folks on this forum that you might want to at least consider this device to help manage the life of your fridge and as a bonus perhaps reduce the chances of catastrophic failure which would lead to a fire...