Another post on intermittent electrical problems got me thinking on the subject of Arc Fault Circuit Interrupters (AFCIs). An AFCI is a special circuit breaker that is designed to detect arcing in a circuit that may cause a fire. Arcing could be a neutral-to-ground short, a loose wire, etc. The National Electric Code now requires AFCI breakers for all branch circuits in a home...I'm not sure if that would apply to RVs or not. Has anyone swapped out their breakers for AFCIs? Any reason that upgrading to AFCIs in your RV isn't a good idea?Read all about AFCIs here.

I don't have a current copy of the NEC but isn't the AFCI requirement only for bedroom circuits? Applicability for NEC is in a separate section for RV's, AFAIK. There wouldn't be anything inherently wrong with using an AFCI in an RV. One might endure more nuisance trips but don't know that for certain.

Yes, I'm going off of the Square D bulletin that I linked to in my previous post. Looking at it again I see that's it's from 2002 and provides FAQs on the new NEC requirements for AFCIs in bedrooms. Now that I'm thinking about it my TT is a 2008 so if they were required for RVs I would have them in mine. I would think that with the amount of vibration and movement that RV wiring is subjected to that it would be a good idea to use AFCIs, but I'm not an electrician so figured I would ask here.

It will probably be only a matter of time and they will be required in the RV industry. I had to install them in my daughters house for the bedroom circuits when I rewired it a couple of years ago. I do see their purpose although they are very expensive. JMT

I talked to an electrician that I know and short story is that they were a pain in the you know what. I personally have no experience with them.

They are very troublesome. Things like vacuum cleaners or other items with electrical motors can cause them to trip. They also sometimes trip when plugging or unplugging things. Then they trip for no reason at all, circuit works fine for weeks, turn on a light and welcome to the dark side. My newest home had them, and after a discussion with several electricians and the code enforcement officer, they are now relegated to a storage box. All agreed they were overkill for common usage. It's been three years, no fires yet and the regular breakers are not tripping seemingly at random. I will put them back in when and if I ever put it on the market.

AFCIs in an RV | Good Sam Community

BurbMan
Explorer II
Jan 17, 2014
CA Traveler wrote:
There is also a dedicated 20A plug in the garage with no GFCI so I'm not sure of just what the code requirements were/are.

You are allowed a "dedicated use" outlet like this

In areas like garages that would normally require a GFCI for a fridge, freezer, or similar appliance that you wouldn't want to turn off for a nuisance trip. The idea is that outlet is occupied by the appliance so you can go plugging in a drill or something.
stevenal
Nomad II
Jan 17, 2014
Dusty R wrote:
Not very many bed room floors will conduct electricity, therefore there will be no unbalance, so the GFCI will not trip.
Pushing a bobby in to the hot and neutral will cause an arc.

Dusty

The arcing fault determination takes time. It must distinguish the arcing within a switch as it changes position, or a motor during startup from the continuous arc likely to ignite a fire. The bobby pin making a perfect balance will trip the breaker on plain old fashioned over-current. The toddler in question on the insulated floor was never in serious danger, since no current was flowing through his body; although he might burn his fingers a bit.
CA_Traveler
Explorer III
Jan 17, 2014
From Wiki which includes additional content:
In the United States and Canada, a residual-current device is most commonly known as a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI), Ground Fault Interrupter (GFI) or an Appliance Leakage Current Interrupter (ALCI). Ground Fault Condition is defined as: An unintentional, electrically conducting connection between an ungrounded conductor of an electrical circuit and the normally non-current-carrying conductors, metallic enclosures, metallic raceways, metallic equipment or earth.

An Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter (AFCI) is a circuit breaker designed to prevent fires by detecting an unintended electrical arc and disconnecting the power before the arc starts a fire. An AFCI must distinguish between a harmless arc that occurs incidental to normal operation of switches, plugs and brushed motors and an undesirable arc that can occur, for example, in a lamp cord that has a broken conductor in the cord.
My house has 4 AFCIs located in the CB panel and none have tripped in 7 years. They basically connect to most of the normal wall plugs inside the house.

I also have several GFIs that are located on the first plug of a circuit and connect to all outside, garage and water area plugs. There is also a dedicated 20A plug in the garage with no GFCI so I'm not sure of just what the code requirements were/are.
Dusty_R
Explorer
Jan 17, 2014
Not very many bed room floors will conduct electricity, therefore there will be no unbalance, so the GFCI will not trip.
Pushing a bobby in to the hot and neutral will cause an arc.

Dusty
BurbMan
Explorer II
Jan 16, 2014
Yes it will. A GFCI monitors how much current goes out through the hot leg vs how much is being returned through the neutral. If more is going out than is coming back, it assumes the difference is probably flowing through a bobby pin to a toddler, and it cuts the circuit in a jillionth of a second or some timeframe that prevents the toddler from receiving a dangerous shock.

AFCIs are designed to somehow measure arcing. A loose connection may be generating enough heat or sparks to start a fire without passing enough current to trip the breaker.

AFCIs and GFCIs are designed to do different things.
Dusty_R
Explorer
Jan 16, 2014
stevenal wrote:
Dusty R wrote:
Was told that children, when playing, will often stick a bobby pin in a receptacle, which will cause an arc going in, is the reason for the AFCI.

Dusty

An AFCI is unlikely to open in time in this circumstance. A GFCI will. New regs (not for RVs as far as I know) now call for "tamper resistant" receptacles equipped with shutters to keep those bobby pins out.

A GFCI will not trip from hot to neutral.

Dusty
NinerBikes
Explorer
Jan 16, 2014
Getting harder for the gene pool to cleanse itself of definite Darwin Award children, with all the new code. Something about "You can't fix Stupid".
stevenal
Nomad II
Jan 16, 2014
Dusty R wrote:
Was told that children, when playing, will often stick a bobby pin in a receptacle, which will cause an arc going in, is the reason for the AFCI.

Dusty

An AFCI is unlikely to open in time in this circumstance. A GFCI will. New regs (not for RVs as far as I know) now call for "tamper resistant" receptacles equipped with shutters to keep those bobby pins out.
CA_Traveler
Explorer III
Jan 11, 2014
None of the 4 in our house have tripped in 7 years.
john_bet
Explorer II
Jan 11, 2014
Wayne Dohnal wrote:
You are right. I just looked in my copy of the 2002 NEC and AFCI are not addressed in the RV section, but are for the stick built homes. I do not have a copy of the current NEC as I retired from electrical work a number of years ago.
Does 90.2(A)(1) defining an RV as a premises affect that interpretation?
Sir,I will not debate the requirements of the NEC at this or any other time. I am retired from that field. I simply looked at a very old book(2002) that was referenced in this thread and the specific section concerning RV's. Thanks for you question though.