Bad receptacle installation by factory - potentially unsafe

[myredracer]

I removed a receptacle in our KZ Spree TT on the weekend to replace it with a black one and what I found was disturbing as can be seen in the first photo. Let this serve as a warning to RV owners out there.

The hot and neutral wires were only pushed onto one of the two terminals instead of two as specified by the manufacturer and as required by the UL/CSA certification. This means that the receptacle is only capable of carrying 1/2 it's current rating - 7 1/2 amps. Where higher rated appliances are used like say in a kitchen, this could lead to overheating. Worse, if someone has a heater plugged in and it runs non-stop for long periods of time, that would create an even higher risk of overheating. Note also that the romex/loomex cable sheath does not extend inside the receptacle housing as it is required to.

I've also found two receptacles with reverse polarity and a wire at a breaker in the converter/panel that was completely loose. KZ needs to look at their electrical practices and code compliance. I've also found numerous issues with the 12 volt wiring too. I am NOT impressed. :M

KZ is not alone though. The second photo is from a previous Coachmen Catalina TT that we used to own and you can see the hot wire connected to one terminal only there too. You can also see how the terminal was damaged and it appears that they did not use the correct tool. In two out of two TTs that I've pulled receptacles out of the wall, they've both had the same problem. Not good odds.

Receptacles in RVs are designated "SCD" for self-contained device and do not require an outlet box. These are also use in mobile homes. They are CSA or UL tested and are completely safe to use and do not ever need to be removed and replaced with a residential type (and outlet box) with screw terminals. The MUST be properly installed though and that is where RV factories are at fault. There is a special tool to "punch down" the wires onto the terminals and there is no excuse for not doing it correctly. This catalogue from Hubbell has detailed info. on their Wirecon SCD and explains how they are to be installed.

RVs are required to be wired according to the NEC, which is very detailed on what is required. Plus electrical appliances, wiring devices (recepts. & switches), wire, etc. are required to be UL or CSA certified. The problem is - there is no authority having jurisdiction or electrical engineer that is required to inspect the work for code compliance. To make it even harder, RVs are built in one state and shipped all over the US and to Canada so what AHJ would be responsible? I might consider notifying the electrical safety authority but would it be a state official or would it go to a federal authority?

[pianotuna]

Try this maker:

http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/

Horizon170 wrote:
I have searched and searched and can not find any U.S.A. made duplex.
I did find a couple of good made in USA used at a thrift store.
May someday we can find new ones made in the USA.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

The plaintiff's fire started in a bedroom wall. There were six people aboard when the fire broke out. One of their friends was stupid and stuck around long enough o take a photograph. The San Bernadino County FD handled the event.

To me it's a moot point. I do not enter a freeway using an off ramp. I do not cross against a red light nor willingly do anything that would challenge the appearance of rational sanity.

I have seen way way too many cases of receptacle failure due entirely to having an inadequate receptacle tasked for the work. It just isn't worth it. Even a mouth-breather can see the receptacle tension grip increase using a spec grade plug versus a contractor plug. Spec receptacles grip-tighter starting off. It's exactly the same thing as having a loose battery cable. Only a bad receptacle can kill you via your personal Dante's Inferno.

Of interest
The next time you go to Home Depot, pass by the receptacle aisle. Look for a receptacle that costs twice or thrice that for a contractor grade. Wander further down the aisle and grab a cord plug used to repair and extension cord. Plug it in. Tight huh? Now compare tightness to a contractor grade plug. Oooooo loose as a goose in comparison.

If you prefer a loose connection do not overlook the battery cables in your car. Grab a wrench. Back off the tightness and give those poor posts a break...

Sheesh.

[joebedford]

Horizon170 wrote:
May someday we can find new ones made in the USA.

Why? Are the offshore ones bad?

[Horizon170]

Lynnmor wrote:
I replaced the cheap junk self contained outlets with real residential outlets in a box. The idea that electricians and inspectors are part of the process is not the reality in the RV business.

I have searched and searched and can not find any U.S.A. made duplex.
I did find a couple of good made in USA used at a thrift store.
May someday we can find new ones made in the USA.

[myredracer]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:


I appeared in Superior Court county of Los Angeles in the winter of 1990 as an expert witness. An insurance company was trying to sleaze out of payment claim for a total loss.
Interesting! Would be interested to hear more. Any idea how often investigations get carried out or do they just routinely write them off sometimes?

Amazing how some folks treat their health and well being in regard to misinterpretation of specifications. Probably a mere couple of members here can accurately describe the differences in receptacles "Contractor - Specification - Industrial - Federal - Hospital"

If you do not know the differences in receptacles I fail to see how you can judge why they exist and when not to use one or more.
Agree! Many want nothing to do with ST tires hecho en China but have no concern whatsoever about using a 50 cent receptacle from a big box store. Heck, you can even buy RV extension cords and adapters that are made in the same off-shore country and they have NO UL or CSA certification - that's asking for trouble but it's not illegal to sell them.

There is big difference in retention force and resistance between the lowest and highest grade receptacles. If you want the best and have enough arm strength, try a hospital grade recept...

Using a heater in an RV is quite different than a house due to the comparatively poor insulation and air leakage, plus in the winter you should be opening windows to remove moisture. The result is that heaters in an RV tend to run non-stop 24/7 and there is no on/off cycling like there would be in a house and RV recepts. can heat up. Then, if you plug into a recept. that is the last one on a series run, you could have poor connections downstream.

fj12ryder wrote:
Considering that after a trailer fire there is usually not enough left to even consider where the fire started. So who's to say some fires haven't been started by badly installed outlets.

I used to work with an EE that was trained as a forensic fire investigator where electrical causes are suspected. It's pretty amazing what they can find with the few clues that are left behind. There are firms that specialize in RV fire investigations like this one.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Neat. Qualifying and justifying use of a "Vacation Party Favor".

UL
DOES
NOT
QUALIFY
FAILURE
OF RECEPTACLE
CONDUCTORS
DUE
TO
ANNEALING
CAUSED
BY
OVERHEATING

Overheating caused by MARGINAL tension of contacts and wipers. I appeared in Superior Court county of Los Angeles in the winter of 1990 as an expert witness. An insurance company was trying to sleaze out of payment claim for a total loss. Problem was I had inspected the rig and receptacles (2-year old) and told the owner to get them the hell out of his rig and replace them. He didn't and the rig burned to the ground in Palm Desert, CA. Be attempted to heat his rig with electric heaters. Defense claim: Old heater. Plaintiff counter-claim. Receipt from Home Depot showing 2 heater were purchased by plaintiff 15 days before the fire.

The Insurance Company to my knowledge is not affiliated with this site.

A real PITA measured against $576.00 paid for my testimony.

"Oh shoot let's try another crossing - we beat the last four trains didn't we?"

Amazing how some folks treat their health and well being in regard to misinterpretation of specifications. Probably a mere couple of members here can accurately describe the differences in receptacles "Contractor - Specification - Industrial - Federal - Hospital"

If you do not know the differences in receptacles I fail to see how you can judge why they exist and when not to use one or more.


Here is a reasonable explanation in PDF format

http://www.hubbell-wiring.com/press/pdfs/h5254.pdf

[fj12ryder]

Blacklane wrote:
Those self-contained devices in RVs have been designed, tested, and certified by at least two different agencies (UL/CSA & NFPA) to be safe for their intended use. Even the original poster on this thread showed a mis-wired device that still showed no signs of overheating. I have yet to find a single instance of one failing in an unsafe manner.

Why are people removing perfectly safe devices and installing inappropriate ones?

Considering that after a trailer fire there is usually not enough left to even consider where the fire started. So who's to say some fires haven't been started by badly installed outlets.

[pianotuna]

Key words "intended use". For example the one receptacle in my rv that was screw terminals was the dedicated microwave outlet. If the "stab" ones were up to the task I'm sure they would have not gone to the expense of the 20 am in a box type.

I have replaced all the "junk" outlets. I don't load them to more than 80% (12 amps) continuous duty per circuit (exception, microwave) and I've added two additional shore power cords.

I heat 100% electrically right down to -37 c (-34 f).

Blacklane wrote:
Those self-contained devices in RVs have been designed, tested, and certified by at least two different agencies (UL/CSA & NFPA) to be safe for their intended use.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Separate Post

SPECIFICATION GRADE RECEPTACLES do not exist for "The Hell Of It". Non spec receptacles are garbage. To be avoided like the plague.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

"Ah did not have ...depends on the meaning of the word - is"

Try using Spade Terminals like I mentioned in my first post. After the screws are tightened on a SPECIFICATION GRADE RECEPTACLE they will not loosen except by your screwdriver EVER.

[Blacklane]

Those self-contained devices in RVs have been designed, tested, and certified by at least two different agencies (UL/CSA & NFPA) to be safe for their intended use. Even the original poster on this thread showed a mis-wired device that still showed no signs of overheating. I have yet to find a single instance of one failing in an unsafe manner.

Why are people removing perfectly safe devices and installing inappropriate ones?

[joebedford]

I was very nervous about those push on wire receptacles so I added two dedicated household receptacles each with a separate breaker for space heaters.

[myredracer]

blofgren wrote:
Yikes, now I have another thing to do to the RV. I will pull a few and have a look.

Well, now you're just gonna have to report back... Let's hope it is good news!

[time2roll]

I specifically bought a 1200 watt electric heater to have lower amp load on the system.
Pretty much everything else is just a couple amps max so no worries.

[blofgren]

Yikes, now I have another thing to do to the RV. I will pull a few and have a look.