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batteies

ck1246
Explorer
Explorer
My house batteies went bad this winter. Can replace with lithium batteies. Will they work with my conveter ?
30 REPLIES 30

StirCrazy
Moderator
Moderator
Tom_M wrote:
When I'm plugged in my battery will not charge fully but that is not a problem with lithium.


be careful saying that. yes, I agree it doesn't have to be charged fully on a regular basis, but you still have to charge it full once and a while to ensure the cells stay balanced.

You can get away with this because you let your solar charge it with proper profiles and hopefully you take it up to 100% with that once and a while and let it fully balance. My BMS has a passive balancer that would take forever to balance so I added an active balancer to mine, so it only needs 2 hours or less to balance my 300AH battery. When I am camping, I do this once a week, the rest of the time I cut off at 90% but that's the BMS controlling that.
2014 F350 6.7 Platinum
2016 Cougar 330RBK
1991 Slumber Queen WS100

StirCrazy
Moderator
Moderator
otrfun wrote:
It's a common fallacy that a so-called "Lithium/Lifepo4 Approved" converter must be used to charge Lifepo4 batteries. Absolutely, not true. I posted this in another thread:

. . . arguably one of the better general-purpose, non-programmable charging platforms for a lifepo4 (as long as no charge/equalization mode exceeds 14.6v) is a 3-stage *lead-cell* 13.2v/13.6v/14.4v converter. It even has the advantage of a 13.2v float and more conservative 14.4v bulk vs. some of the 2-stage 13.6v/14.6v Lithium/Lifepo4 Approved converters.

. . . there will always be some debate about the best float/absorption/bulk voltages to use with a multi-stage converter to best charge a lifepo4. However, you'd be hard-pressed to find much debate about the best one, single voltage to both float and bulk charge a lifepo4. Why? Because such a voltage simply does not exist. This is why a single-stage (single/one voltage) 14.6v converter (even though Lithium/Lifepo4 Approved) is the worst possible charging platform for a lifepo4.

Claims that a given converter/charger is "Lithium/Lifepo4 Approved" are simply marketing ploys which tell you absolutely nothing about how well or safely it will charge and maintain your lifepo4 battery. The number of stages, and the voltage used by a converter to support each of these stages, ultimately determines how well a given converter will properly maintain (and charge) a lifepo4 battery.


I don't think it is absolutely true, in fact I agree that you can get by without one but should you... I think you can but only long enough till you can figure out exactly what you need then do the switchover. There are going to be some things you can't do properly without a constant voltage that is high enough, but here is my switch up. If you have enough solar, and your solar capacity is large enough to keep everything charged, then who cares about the charger on the converter... turn the breaker off, you don't need it. Then later when you decide you want to spend money you can change it out.

People seem to get hung up on this, but really, it's a couple hundred dollars, you're spending a couple K on batteries is it really a stretch to get a proper converter for them?

I look at this more as what do I need to get the maximum life out of that battery. I don't care if it will last for 15 years, I want 20 out of it. but when I was first looking into getting LI batteries most manufactures were saying to run your converter on a "Gell" setting as it is closest to a LI profile until you get a proper charger.
2014 F350 6.7 Platinum
2016 Cougar 330RBK
1991 Slumber Queen WS100

Tom_M1
Explorer
Explorer
fj12ryder wrote:
That sure looks authoritative, but what are the credentials behind whoever wrote that up? Anybody can write anything, but that doesn't really mean it's strictly factual. I don't care personally, but any cut-and-paste without crediting the source is sometimes questionable.
Here's the source. You will note that he quoted himself so it must be true.

https://forums.goodsamclub.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/30385436/gotomsg/30387192.cfm#3038719...

I upgraded to a Renogy lithium battery and did not upgrade my converter. I'm hardly ever plugged in to a 120 volt source relying on solar most of the time. When I'm plugged in my battery will not charge fully but that is not a problem with lithium.
Tom
2005 Born Free 24RB
170ah Renogy LiFePo4 drop-in battery 400 watts solar
Towing 2016 Mini Cooper convertible on tow dolly
Minneapolis, MN

theoldwizard1
Explorer II
Explorer II
AllegroD wrote:
Maybe. Probably. What converter do you have? If it has a lithium setting, ...

I disagree. Most "stock" converters do NOT have a lithium setting.

Might be a good time to dump the old converter and upgrade to an inverter/charger/automatic transfer switch.

Grit_dog
Navigator
Navigator
otrfun wrote:
Grit dog wrote:
^No, say it ainโ€™t soโ€ฆ.lol.
Don't blame you for lol. For folks like yourself that visit here often, yeah, replies like this get redundant. However, it's a simple theme---numbers trump words and stickers. Bears repeating because it comes up often. If I can save one person $200, it's worth it.


The โ€œlolโ€ came from the inevitable responses to follow by the โ€œexpertsโ€ here who pretend like theyโ€™re tuning their camper batteries like a top fuel dragster.
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5โ€ turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

fj12ryder
Explorer III
Explorer III
That sure looks authoritative, but what are the credentials behind whoever wrote that up? Anybody can write anything, but that doesn't really mean it's strictly factual. I don't care personally, but any cut-and-paste without crediting the source is sometimes questionable.
Howard and Peggy

"Don't Panic"

otrfun
Explorer II
Explorer II
Grit dog wrote:
^No, say it ainโ€™t soโ€ฆ.lol.
Don't blame you for lol. For folks like yourself that visit here often, yeah, replies like this get redundant. However, it's a simple theme---numbers trump words and stickers. Bears repeating because it comes up often. If I can save one person $200, it's worth it.

Grit_dog
Navigator
Navigator
^No, say it ainโ€™t soโ€ฆ.lol.
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5โ€ turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

otrfun
Explorer II
Explorer II
It's a common fallacy that a so-called "Lithium/Lifepo4 Approved" converter must be used to charge Lifepo4 batteries. Absolutely, not true. I posted this in another thread:

. . . arguably one of the better general-purpose, non-programmable charging platforms for a lifepo4 (as long as no charge/equalization mode exceeds 14.6v) is a 3-stage *lead-cell* 13.2v/13.6v/14.4v converter. It even has the advantage of a 13.2v float and more conservative 14.4v bulk vs. some of the 2-stage 13.6v/14.6v Lithium/Lifepo4 Approved converters.

. . . there will always be some debate about the best float/absorption/bulk voltages to use with a multi-stage converter to best charge a lifepo4. However, you'd be hard-pressed to find much debate about the best one, single voltage to both float and bulk charge a lifepo4. Why? Because such a voltage simply does not exist. This is why a single-stage (single/one voltage) 14.6v converter (even though Lithium/Lifepo4 Approved) is the worst possible charging platform for a lifepo4.

Claims that a given converter/charger is "Lithium/Lifepo4 Approved" are simply marketing ploys which tell you absolutely nothing about how well or safely it will charge and maintain your lifepo4 battery. The number of stages, and the voltage used by a converter to support each of these stages, ultimately determines how well a given converter will properly maintain (and charge) a lifepo4 battery.

Veebyes
Explorer II
Explorer II
AllegroD wrote:
ck1246 wrote:
2004 Keystone Rapter

Year make and model of your TT is not enough. It is enough to say that if you have the original converter, you probably do not have a lithium setting.

What make & model of converter do you have?

What type of camping do you do? This is important, as cold and heat affect lithium charging. I would continue to get smart on lithium batteries and their discharge/charge requirements, as well as heated lithium batts, before deciding on a brand/model of lithium batt.


Good advice. Very wise to learn up on the lithiums. They are not cheap. They require some special attention. Given your style of camping are they worth the extra money? The lithiums could be around for 15 plus years. Will your trailer still be around in 2038? Are you an extended traveler on the road for months at a time & often dry camping or are you a weekend warrior always connected to shore power & not needing anything more than the basics in a battery bank?
Boat: 32' 1996 Albin 32+2, single Cummins 315hp
40+ night per year overnighter

2007 Alpenlite 34RLR
2006 Chevy 3500 LT, CC,LB 6.6L Diesel

Ham Radio: VP9KL, IRLP node 7995

wa8yxm
Explorer III
Explorer III
As others have said it depends on the converter... Generally a standard RV converter will never properly charge a LI battery but.. The problem is the word "Generally" some of them will fully charge them and some more than that.

Considering the cost of a good set of LI batteries and the cost of a replacement LI-Profiled Converter from Progressive Dynamics ... I'd upgrade the converter (But keep the old one just in cuss)
This one is $360 from Battle Born Batteries.. IF you search "Converter" on their web site you will find several other options

PD 4575 at BattleBorn
Home was where I park it. but alas the.
2005 Damon Intruder 377 Alas declared a total loss
after a semi "nicked" it. Still have the radios
Kenwood TS-2000, ICOM ID-5100, ID-51A+2, ID-880 REF030C most times

AllegroD
Nomad
Nomad
ck1246 wrote:
2004 Keystone Rapter

Year make and model of your TT is not enough. It is enough to say that if you have the original converter, you probably do not have a lithium setting.

What make & model of converter do you have?

What type of camping do you do? This is important, as cold and heat affect lithium charging. I would continue to get smart on lithium batteries and their discharge/charge requirements, as well as heated lithium batts, before deciding on a brand/model of lithium batt.

ck1246
Explorer
Explorer
2004 Keystone Rapter

pianotuna
Nomad III
Nomad III
Hi ck1246,

Welcome to the forums.

What is themake and model of existing converter?

Which Li batteries are you considering?
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

CA_Traveler
Explorer III
Explorer III
Most likely your RV is set up for flooded batteries and doesn't have a lithium profile setting. The best option is to add a DC-DC charger that has a lithium setting for charging from both the AC charger and the alternator. This applies to trailers also as they are charged by the tow vehicle alternator. Solar is a third possible charging source.

MHs with 2 different type battery banks present additional changes for charging. Maybe as posted above, but it could also be an expensive lesson.
2009 Holiday Rambler 42' Scepter with ISL 400 Cummins
750 Watts Solar Morningstar MPPT 60 Controller
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland

Bob