Battery #1 (Engine) vs. Battery #2 (House) Issue

[RVimana]

Hi All,
First post on the forums, thanks for taking a minute.

Wife and I were driving our 1988 Honey Class A to visit family, and I inadvertently left the running lights on at the Mother-In-Law. Battery #1 now to low to start engine.

No problem, I'll just switch the leads to Battery #2 (House battery right beside it). No issues the rest of the day - I made certain to turn the lights off, ha-ha.

Hooked up the battery charger from my garage, charged for 24+ hours, checked it with a tester (output 12V+), and reconnected the wires the identical way they came off.

Cranked the engine for about 1/2 a second, then nothing. No lights, no click, nothing.

Switched the cranking battery cables back to the house battery, all good. Engine starts, lights good, everything working fine.

Grab another battery (had one in the garage, checked 12V+), put it in, connect it. Same problem - cranked the engine for about 1/2 a second, then nothing. No lights, no clicks, nothing.

Put the original cranking battery back in and connected it, then hooked up to shore power at my residence for 48 hours, thinking that maybe it might help.

Same problem - cranked the engine for about 1/2 a second, then nothing. No lights, no clicks, nothing.

Not sure where to look. I'm sure I can go out there and switch the battery cables back to the House battery and run along just fine, but that doesn't solve the problem.

Sorry for the long post - any ideas on what to check?

In friendship & safe travels,
RVimana

[RVimana]

Hey 66vdub,
That looks kinda familiar!

Will be comparing under the hood very soon and will let you know if I happen across something.

I spoke to a couple gents who know more than I do about electrical issues and one said that it wouldn't start AT ALL if one of the solenoids were faulty, and he said perhaps check the switches/junctions that are right there. After I described the situation to the other gentleman (my father) he said it sounded like a bad ground.

After all, how many wiring grounds can there be to check? (ha, ha):h

SINCERELY APPRECIATE ALL THE HELP!

More to come,
RVimana

[66vdub]

Not sure if you need or not...

Here are pics of my set up on my 1987 Honey.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

RVimana,

Thanks for reporting. This is "real life school" that cannot be manufactured. Please continue.

[RVimana]

Hey All,
Took apart the connections on the top solenoid - both sides where the battery cables come in. Cleaned them with a file, re-connected. Same problem.

Took apart both sides of the lower solenoid, and noticed that the right side post was kind of floating or loose in there, while the other three were tight. Reconnected. Same issue.

Going to get a solenoid and switch that out (will at least have a spare) and check the other points that everyone has suggested as well.

Thanks again,
RVimana Erich

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Corrosion is tweaking your beaky...

Chop terminals, strip wires, shine to bright copper. Rub both side of nuts on 90 grit emery. Reassemble. Spootch with grease. Do the same with battery cables at frame.

I made a ton of money from folks who didn't want to do this work themselves.

[westend]

It looks like it's time to take some wires loose and clean the terminations. I'd guess that one or more of those wires have corrosion inside the jacket of the wire, also.

[DrewE]

The top solenoid appears to be the isolator solenoid, or at least the emergency start solenoid. Pressing the dash switch connects the coil to the house battery positive and so connects the two batteries together. If it's also the isolator solenoid (which is often but not always the case), I suspect the dash switch would also have a connection to a switched circuit from the chassis that's on when the ignition is on, connected to the normally closed contact.

The bottom solenoid may be the starter solenoid. Where does the other big wire go from it?

I think you probably have a bad wire or bad connection somewhere, rather than a bad solenoid, though the latter is possible. Check the battery and ground wires carefully at both of their ends. I would almost bet money that one of them looks OK but is actually falling apart, at least internally.

[RVimana]

Hi All,
First of all, thanks again for the help. It is sincerely appreciated.

I have an update, and even a couple of pics this time.

After the last update, I hadn't had any issues - until today. Hooked up the boat and took it to the lake (not far, perhaps a mile). Pulled in, shut the RV off, unstrapped, then launched and parked. Noticed it looked unusually crooked (one parking line straight, the other crooked - go figure). So I went to start it to move it...

No deal.

Won't crank but a second, then nothing. No lights, no power. Went fishing. Missed a biggun on a frog, but I digress...

Now, back to the ramp. Get in and turn the key, zero. There is this button on the dash, right next to the ignition, that says "Emergency Start". I push it, let go, turn the key. Nothing. I leave the key in the "ON" position, and push the button. All the 'check engine' lights light up (remember this is a 1988, i.e. choke. etc.). Let the button go, turn the key, nothing.

Now, I push the button in, hold it, and turn the key. RV starts right up. I leave it running while I strap everything down and get home.

At home, I park it and shut it off. Pull out my battery tester and find that the cranking battery (#1) is now a bit low. I switch it out with the same battery that I had used in my initial switch (it checked 12V+).

Get in and try to start it - nothing. No lights - zero. Push the emergency start button, hold it, turn the key and it starts right up.

Now, I leave the lights on and am shaking wires looking for a flicker, flash, anything that will tell me it's a wire.

NO KEYS in the ignition - push the emergency start button - all the lights come on. Nice and bright.

I've attached a picture of the wiring of the emergency start switch. I don't want to start unscrewing things until I have a replacement - could it be one of these solenoids? Is this a relatively standard item that I can get in an electronics store or RV dealer?



Thanks again for any more insight into this. I hope my info is helpful.

In friendship & safe travels,
EZ EEE

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Tip:

Some posts like to deteriorate to lead galena. Black costing. Hard as obsidian. Galena laughs at battery brushes. Takes a knife and chipping top to bottom to remove this coating. Be careful of chewing up the lead post. Mating lugs also can suffer. Takes a knife to remove. Wear glasses. A chip of this in the eye is agony incarnate.

Sometimes an intercell STRAP inside the battery, fractures. When this happens, the battery can support a modest load, but when cranking amperage is applied it goes deader than a doornail. Five minutes later it can recover and support a modest load again. The fracture soon deteriorates. Would this be a Johnson Controls battery?

[RVimana]

WOW!
Thanks to everyone for all the responses!

I re-installed the original battery with same wire connections, and for whatever reason haven't had any issue since. Drove around a couple times, no problems. But - I know there is one.

I did, however, notice that there is a wire junction in the cable that goes from the cranking battery directly to the starter. I'm thinking that could be the culprit.

Used to do basic auto maintenance, but that was back in the 80's when I was a younger guy. Will keep this post updated with my progress (as slow as it might be 😉 .

Thanks again for all the help!

In friendship & safe travels,
EZ EEE

[westend]

Is there a fusible link in the OEM starting battery's cable?

[MEXICOWANDERER]

http://www.fluke.com/fluke/uses/comunidad/fluke-news-plus/articlecategories/electrical/diagnosevoltd...

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/a4246/4314662/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aioZN33xsA

http://www.aa1car.com/library/voltage_drop_testing.htm

There.
That otter do 'er for tutorials.

It's about 50 times harder to diagnose problems without the participation of the original poster. Utterly basic electrical troubleshooting is an absolute must unless the owner bank account is flooded with hundred dollar bills and can have his driver shuttle the rig to a from a shop.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Volt drop. Measure at battery post with red probe, the clamp with the black probe. This is how the pro's do it. The test is absolutely infallible. Keep tracing down-line to the load. The circuit needs to be under load for the volt drop test to work. Carry 90 grit sandpaper to scratch through the corrosion for the probes.

You can bet your sweet --- this test will find a bad post to lug connection in .001 second flat.

[Almot]

🙂
BUT... Handheld meter won't tell bad connection between terminal and lug, or a cracked cable (usually near lug on either end of the cable). When there is a "connection", but not sufficient for 100A starter current. One must really be a virtuoso player to check this with a cheap meter.

Making sure the battery is charged and working is the 1s step of course.