Battery Upgrade

[peirek]

First let me set the stage. We boondock 1-2 weeks a year. The rest of the time the trailer is plugged into shore power either in storage or at campground with hookups. We have one house GP27 wet cell battery in a rear storage compartment. The battery is in a sealed box and is vented bottom and top. The house battery is approximately 8' from charger (WFCO WF-8935AN-P) connected with 6AWG wire (I am estimating ~10' of wire). I have been taking a second deep cycle battery and connecting to front vehicle connector. This is approximately 20' from charger. I know this is not at all efficient and is mildly effective, but it has served us ok. We run the genny (Honda EU2000) for ~4 hours a day which gets the batteries back up but not fully charged.

I would like to add a second battery to the rear storage compartment but have to consider venting etc. I am leaning towards using two AGMs (6V or 12V?) so as to not worry about gassing and venting. The compartment is big enough to contain both batteries and it will still have a vent top and bottom.

I am looking for guidance on AGM batteries (6V or 12V) and brand. I have learned the Trojans are the best but are they needed for my situation (1-2 wks a year)? I suspect upgrades to the charger will be in order so would like opinions on that. I believe Progressive Dynamics is the preferred brand. I also believe the 14.8 is recommended for AGMs. Is the 6AWG sufficient for a 45A upgrade?

Thank you for your suggestions, directions, and opinions in advance.

[BFL13]

Cydog15 wrote:

BFL13 wrote:
Lots of confusing info being passed around here.

I can confirm for a FACT, that the PowerMax units will all do "boost" at around 14.5v according to their particular charging profiles. The PPCs have a different charging profile from the deck-mount LKs in the "stages" automatic mode, but will still do "boost" at 14.5v as required, despite that 13.8v confusing info.

All have the adjustable voltage mode as well, so you can charge your batteries whatever their specs call for if the automatic "stages" mode is not suitable for your set-up.

I have no clue what Randy is doing with his "Boondocker" units, but they should be at least as good as the PowerMax units AFAIK.

You keep missing it. PM is changing suppliers. If you have one now it might boost but when they are gone, the're gone. Best is keeping the high boost and making it longer (2 hours) instead of 30 mins.

I give up!!!!! You are passing along wrong info either deliberately (why?) or from getting wrong info (or getting the right info wrong--which is what I think happened) from where-ever.

Nobody in the business is so stupid anymore as to just have 13.8 as the high voltage---use your common sense. Or check in again with the company bosses involved and get things straight.

That's all from me; I do not understand what is going on here, but I don't like it. 😞

[Cydog15]

Cydog15 wrote:

BFL13 wrote:
Lots of confusing info being passed around here.

I can confirm for a FACT, that the PowerMax units will all do "boost" at around 14.5v according to their particular charging profiles. The PPCs have a different charging profile from the deck-mount LKs in the "stages" automatic mode, but will still do "boost" at 14.5v as required, despite that 13.8v confusing info.

All have the adjustable voltage mode as well, so you can charge your batteries whatever their specs call for if the automatic "stages" mode is not suitable for your set-up.

I have no clue what Randy is doing with his "Boondocker" units, but they should be at least as good as the PowerMax units AFAIK.

You keep missing it. PM is changing suppliers. If you have one now it might boost but when they are gone, the're gone. Best is keeping the high boost and making it longer (2 hours) instead of 30 mins.

And speaking of Best, I still want the skinny on these Fullriver batts. 7 years seams like a confident manufacture and they are heavier than Lifeline in the same group. Anybody using them?

[Cydog15]

BFL13 wrote:
Lots of confusing info being passed around here.

I can confirm for a FACT, that the PowerMax units will all do "boost" at around 14.5v according to their particular charging profiles. The PPCs have a different charging profile from the deck-mount LKs in the "stages" automatic mode, but will still do "boost" at 14.5v as required, despite that 13.8v confusing info.

All have the adjustable voltage mode as well, so you can charge your batteries whatever their specs call for if the automatic "stages" mode is not suitable for your set-up.

I have no clue what Randy is doing with his "Boondocker" units, but they should be at least as good as the PowerMax units AFAIK.

You keep missing it. PM is changing suppliers. If you have one now it might boost but when they are gone, the're gone. Best is keeping the high boost and making it longer (2 hours) instead of 30 mins.

[BFL13]

Lots of confusing info being passed around here.

I can confirm for a FACT, that the PowerMax units will all do "boost" at around 14.5v according to their particular charging profiles. The PPCs have a different charging profile from the deck-mount LKs in the "stages" automatic mode, but will still do "boost" at 14.5v as required, despite that 13.8v confusing info.

All have the adjustable voltage mode as well, so you can charge your batteries whatever their specs call for if the automatic "stages" mode is not suitable for your set-up.

I have no clue what Randy is doing with his "Boondocker" units, but they should be at least as good as the PowerMax units AFAIK.

[Cydog15]

BFL13 wrote:
Cydog15's "info" contradicts what one of the top guys at PowerMax (Errin) says is happening. I have posted what Errin says is the situation, including that all units will do boost at about 14.5v in the "automatic" mode, but in different ways between the PPCs and the regular deck-mounts. They all also have the adjustable voltage mode for guys who know how to use that.

Manuals and websites are being amended as things get sorted out with the new models.

Either my multi-meter is wrong or you are getting what you want to hear. 13.81 is 13.8 on the pm in my mind. 14.78 is 14.8 in the boondocker. I phoned them today to confirm there is and will be a difference.

[BFL13]

Cydog15's "info" contradicts what one of the top guys at PowerMax (Errin) says is happening. I have posted what Errin says is the situation, including that all units will do boost at about 14.5v in the "automatic" mode, but in different ways between the PPCs and the regular deck-mounts. They all also have the adjustable voltage mode for guys who know how to use that.

Manuals and websites are being amended as things get sorted out with the new models.

[Cydog15]

BFL13 wrote:

rjsurfer wrote:
What's the difference between a deck mount charger/inverter and the enclosed versions where all the components etc. are in the box?

Ron W.

Compare the standard PM3 LK deck-mount with the MBA and the PPC here.

http://powermaxconverters.com/products/

The PPC is for OEM mostly, while the MBA is a replacement for other companies' OEM converters but you keep the OEM power centre. The deck-mount is just the converter part, but can be mounted anywhere--it is not part of the power centre like the MBA.

These are converter/chargers, which do not have an inverter included like inverter/chargers do.

You missed what I posted above. Their website is wrong because they have changed suppliers and told me so. Powermax told me this, not best converter. The new PMs will all be 13.8 ((all, not just ppc) except for the aftermarket version and that is the one best distributes. It will be 14.7 for 2 hours. New powermax units will not even have a boost unless you consider up from 13.6 to 13.8 a boost. Will take forever to charge a battery and in some cases won't even do it completely.

[BFL13]

rjsurfer wrote:
What's the difference between a deck mount charger/inverter and the enclosed versions where all the components etc. are in the box?

Ron W.

Compare the standard PM3 LK deck-mount with the MBA and the PPC here.

http://powermaxconverters.com/products/

The PPC is for OEM mostly, while the MBA is a replacement for other companies' OEM converters but you keep the OEM power centre. The deck-mount is just the converter part, but can be mounted anywhere--it is not part of the power centre like the MBA.

These are converter/chargers, which do not have an inverter included like inverter/chargers do.

[BFL13]

Cydog15 is getting info about bestconverter's "Boondockers", while I have been talking about PowerMax itself. Not the same, as I have also tried to point out.

On the subject of time in boost, IMO it is hopeless to have a fixed number for the automatic stages mode, since one size cannot fit all. Each designer will pick a time out of his hat, and that's what you will get. It could be a different time and voltage in different models, so you have to read up the specs before you buy a particular model and boost voltage. You must not confuse "Boondocker" with PowerMax either--different companies. Last I heard, PowerMax supplies Randy with his Boondockers to Randy's specs.

PowerMax has added the nifty feature of an adjustable voltage that stays at that until you change it for its LK models. ( Randy has gone with that for his too) So you can charge your batteries just right for your situation.

[rjsurfer]

What's the difference between a deck mount charger/inverter and the enclosed versions where all the components etc. are in the box?

Ron W.

[time2roll]

Cydog15 wrote:
Randy at Best demanded longer boost/bulk time too on the aftermarket units and might have finally got it.

I am looking for absorption to be 100% to 150% of bulk time. Fully charged and it all shakes down pretty fast to 13.6 volts. Low battery and you get the extended time you need. Adjustable % based on battery size would be even better.

But what do we know 😉

[Cydog15]

BFL13 wrote:
Ok I found out the 13.8 business with OEMs is only for the PPC units that could/will be OEM. Those will also do boost at about 14.5 IF battery voltage falls to say 12.6 or whatever. It is still being sorted out with OEMs as to just exactly what profile they want in their PPCs. The OEMs want "automatic" for their customers, but battery guys can still get their kicks from the adjustable voltage mode 🙂

The aftermarket deck mount models are different, with boost at approx. 14.5v depending on what you get. They also do the single adjustable voltage, so you can pick any voltage you like to meet your battery's spec.

Once things settle, manuals and websites will get tidied up.

Lol you must have talked with the Brit at the front desk. He doesn't know what's going on and you are getting bad info if that is who you talked to. We wanted to compare so we did. We have tested them and talked to the manufacture as well (not powermax) The OEM will be 13.8 volts and are being manufactured as such right now, all of them. The Aftermarket units will be 14.7 and the only label is the Boondocker. Actually 14.78 on my fluke. It's a Boondocker 1260 HW and stayed for 2 hours before dropping to 13.6. Haven't seen the drop yet to float but surmise since I keep going in the coach to do stuff, it won't until I leave it alone for a couple days since I keep resetting the timer when I turn on lights and radio etc. Gotta have my music lol.
Randy at Best demanded longer boost/bulk time too on the aftermarket units and might have finally got it.

[BFL13]

Ok I found out the 13.8 business with OEMs is only for the PPC units that could/will be OEM. Those will also do boost at about 14.5 IF battery voltage falls to say 12.6 or whatever. It is still being sorted out with OEMs as to just exactly what profile they want in their PPCs. The OEMs want "automatic" for their customers, but battery guys can still get their kicks from the adjustable voltage mode 🙂

The aftermarket deck mount models are different, with boost at approx. 14.5v depending on what you get. They also do the single adjustable voltage, so you can pick any voltage you like to meet your battery's spec.

Once things settle, manuals and websites will get tidied up.

[Cydog15]

BFL13 wrote:
"The PM3LK will always be 13.8 volt max on the 4 stage mode. Just got a Boondocker and it's 14.7, up from 14.6 on the 4 stage mode and has the adjustable lithium mode as well"

That is not correct.

The PM3-LKs have their three-stage mode and the adjustable voltage mode all in one unit. The boost voltage in the three-stage mode is 14.6v and it stays at that for 30 minutes from start -up.

bestconverters gets its "Boondocker" converters from PowerMax to specs as ordered by bestconverters. These specs may be different from PowerMax specs in some cases.

bestconverters seems to be selling their adjustable voltage models as "lithium" chargers. They changed the photo from the external knob pot recently to a photo of a standard old model (external fan, etc), but the above post suggests it is now an LK type with the internal fan and holes in the side for accessing the internal pot. Someday it might all get sorted out with everyone's website clear on what's what.

You can get the specs and operating instructions for the LK on the PowerMax website (use the "products" link first)

When I talked with them, they said the powermax units are changing to 13.8 as requested by OEM but the Boondocker aftermarket version was actually going up from 14.6 to 14.7 or maybe even 14.8 with a 2 hour bulk charge. They also mentioned the manual was incorrect and linked to this for the new PM graph Agree it's confusing.