Converter and GFI issues...and how does a Converter work?

[gtsum]

I have a 2015 Fuzion 345 and when I plug into a GFI outlet, it trips. Sometimes it trips the GFI right away, other times it might go a day before it trips. When I plug into a NON GFI outlet at home (when getting ready for a trip, it never trips the house breaker or anything on the camper...only when plugged into GFI).

I have researched it as best I can and from what I can tell, it isnt an Amp issue (only pulling like 5-8 amps max), but maybe more of a ground fault or something? I also thought it might be a bad power cord (which is possible as I accidentally got it pinched between the landing gear and the ground one time).

So today I shut off all the breakers at the control panel (where the converter is) and flipped them on one by one until it tripped the GFI...I was able to turn all of them on (and only drawing 3 amps) and as soon as I flipped the 20a Converter breaker, it tripped the GFI. So.....is this something like a bad ground on the converter or something wrong with the converter?

For the converter itself, it converts 120v ac to 12v dc, correct? It also charged and monitors the house battery I am guessing? If the above is correct, was I OK to leave the camper plugged in with all the breakers on, except the converter breaker which is off, and then I put a battery tender run from the other outlet on the house 12v battery. I am thinking this is ok????

Obviously I will have the converter short or whatever it is looked at, but for now am I ok having it as described above? Thanks for any advice and tips you can give.

[Harvard]

I do not think there is anything out of wack with the converter. It is not unusual for the total RV system leakage to be close to the 5 mA GFCI trip point.

Here are a couple of links explaining the source of leaks:

Switching Mode Power Supplies: Search for GFCI

The causes of leakage current by Fluke

[gtsum]

thank you for all the information and tips. I now have a better understanding of how a GFI works and why it would trip. I was expecting to find out where the issue was by turning on breakers until it tripped (thinking hot water heater, ac, fridge, living room, etc), but was surprised that everything was good as I kept truning on breakers until the converter...as soon as that breaker was turned on it tripped it. So it seems something is out of whack in there. Thanks again!

[pianotuna]

Hi,

It also depends on the particular GFI. The Magnum inverter/charger I use does not like some gfi's but on others it is no problem. Since I use load support a LOT, when the Magnum won't work I'm not a happy camper.

[wa8yxm]

Well first you need to know how a GFCI works... Imagine a teeter totter. There are two children both exactly the same weight sitting very still and the beam is balanced... Now hand one of them a glass of water (8 oz) and that end quickly hits the ground.
The children are the BLACK and WHITE wires in your power system.. And when one of them carries even a tiny amount more current than the other.. The thing trips.

Now. The converter.. There are two types and yes Some of them DO not play nice with GFCI devices.

one is a transformer supply.. In theory these should work since in a true transformer there is no common connection between the 120 volt and 12 volt side.. However I suspect some might use an autotransformer (Single winding tapped at the proper point for 12 volts, which by the way is about 8-9 volts AC)

Others are "Switching Supplies" and frankly.. I'm not comfortable describing them but it is possible they may "Unbalance" that teeter totter.

Reports are that some converters will only do it if the batteries are low
Others only do it if the batteries are full
Others do it all the time
And still others never do it.

Alas that's all I can tell you.

[Salvo]

It definitely can be the converter. There are two emi capacitors that could be defective. One cap connects hot to ground, the other connects neutral to ground.

You might be able to test for a defective cap if you have a generator with a floating ground. With generator running, measure ac voltage from ground to hot and from ground to neutral at a receptical. Both measurements should be about 60V. If there's a big difference in the two voltages then a cap may be defective.

[enblethen]

If you have a detachable cord, dis connect from coach and test cable, then check the rig.
Yes, you can test from male cord body through detachable cord, but if you find continuity, then need to disconnect to tell whether it is in cord or rig.

[enblethen]

Turn off all circuit breakers in the rig. Use an Ohm meter. Test the two outside blades to the end ones The round blade is ground. Test between each of the blades. There should be no continuity between any of them.

[dougrainer]

gtsum wrote:
Thanks for the replies. Yes it is under warranty and will be going in after our last trip over thanksgiving. the converter and power bank with all the breakers and fuses is in the garage in the wall. No idea if the converter plugs into a receptacle or not. I am thinking it is the converter because I started with all breakers off and turns each one on and was good until the converter breaker was turned on. Water heater was off whole time but fridge had power and everything else did as well and things were fine. At least now I have a better understanding of how things work

Ps...how would I test my 50a cord to make sure something is not pinched or grounded out in there? Thanks again for the tips

Yes, a Faulty appliance can trip a GFCI. The appliance will still operate on a non GFCI circuit. Remember, the GFCI "sees" the imbalance between the Neutral(White) and Hot (Black), that causes the GFCI to trip. NOT necessarily a Ground short. The 50 amp cord will not usually trip the GFCI even since you pinched it. To test the 50 amp cord you could ohm out each end to the breaker box OR, just connect to the GFCI and turn the converter circuit OFF and then bend and twist the shore cord where the pinch is and see if it trips the GFCI. Doug

Make sure you explain to your dealer what tests you have done to lock in to the Power Converter. Very few Service centers will have a GFCI wall plug to test an RV on. I have a 30 amp GFCI pigtail I use to test when customers complain of Shore Connection GFCI tripping.

[gtsum]

Thanks for the replies. Yes it is under warranty and will be going in after our last trip over thanksgiving. the converter and power bank with all the breakers and fuses is in the garage in the wall. No idea if the converter plugs into a receptacle or not. I am thinking it is the converter because I started with all breakers off and turns each one on and was good until the converter breaker was turned on. Water heater was off whole time but fridge had power and everything else did as well and things were fine. At least now I have a better understanding of how things work

Ps...how would I test my 50a cord to make sure something is not pinched or grounded out in there? Thanks again for the tips

[enblethen]

Something in the rig is going to ground. It could be the 120 volt element in the water heater or refer. Yes, it could be the converter but less apt to be.
The GFCI measures the load difference between the 120 power conductor and the neutral. If some device is going to ground, the GFCI will see it and trip.
Converter receptacle could be miss wired or the converter miss wired.
2015, is it under warranty?

[westend]

The problem lies in your 120 V system and it may be that a wire is loose or shorted on the converter circuit. You can test the condition of your cord with a meter. I guess you already know it's not good.

Nothing necessarily wrong with using a standalone charger rather than your converter but a battery tender won't keep up with average use and your battery will eventually die. In fact, if your battery is severely compromised, the draw from the converter may be affecting things.

[BFL13]

Does the converter plug into a receptacle? Instead of turning off the breaker, unplug the converter and see if the GFCI still pops. Sometimes the converter is on with other receptacles such as the outside one that can get wet and then it is the culprit till it dries out.

Yes you can float the batts with a different charger