SoundGuy wrote:
MrWizard wrote:
that is NOT what I said, and you know it
you are arguing semantics of wording
Clearly you just don't "get it", or more likely are refusing to do so just for the sake of wanting to be argumentative. :S This isn't about "semantics" - i.e. "the meaning, or an interpretation of the meaning, of a word, sign, sentence, etc.:" - it's about clarity, about full product disclosure. I've invested a considerable amount in my new Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C and from my perspective I have a right to understand how it works, what it does, how it does it, and why (if at all) it can't be used in certain situations. I'm not interested in blanket statements which in effect say "Don't do that" - such as "never plug the EMS into an inverter" - Progressive's own words in their own EMS owner's manual. Clearly that's not true in all cases and I want to know why. :h The owner's manual also says to never bond ground and neutral yet they themselves sell a generator bonding plug specifically for the purpose. Do they mean inside the EMS itself, inside the RV's breaker panel, or what? None of this is semantics, it's product detail I as an owner deserve to know.
Earlier in this discussion otrfun said - "That why I called PI like everyone else to get a clarification. I just happened to get the owner on the line. He was covering for his tech for lunch. He admitted the inverter warning was probably applicable to MSW inverters, but wasn't absolutely sure." Not absolutely sure?!!! Good grief, this is the OWNER of the company and HE doesn't know?!!! :h
There's more to this than you're aware of ... I've also asked for an explanation as to why my particular EMS reads a couple of volts higher on it's remote display than does my Kill-a-Watt meter or my shop DVM, keeping in mind that neither are Fluke lab accurate and some small degree of error should be expected. To that question I received the following reply -
"As for the difference between the display reading and your voltmeters. Our design measures peak to peak of the ac voltage. Many meters measure RMS ( Root Mean Square ) voltage, this the average power reading and is lower than what our display shows. The two volt difference is to be expected and of no concern, since the unit is calibrated and programmed with this in mind. There is no provision for customers to field calibrate the unit."
Are you kidding me?!! Obviously there has to be more to the story than this since we know that -
Vpeak = 1.414Vrms
and
Vrms = Vpeak/1.414 = .707Vpeak
... so if we see a DVM voltage reading of 120 vac RMS the peak value should be ~ 170 volts. I'm seeing a difference of just a couple of volts so if we assume my particular EMS is correctly calibrated and working properly then there is more to this story than the CSR is either willing to tell me or quite possibly doesn't even understand himself! This is important to me as one of the primary reasons I've invested in this product is for low voltage shutoff which Progressive states is 104 vac ... but is that really the case? At what voltage reading on the EMS remote display will this unit actually cut off incoming source power to the trailer? Based on the CSR response I have no idea and that's just not good enough. :M I've invested in this company's product and while some like you may be blindly willing to accept their vague explanations I am not and will continue to pursue a more detailed explanation of this product.
Sound guy from Progressive's view it ultimately is about liability not full disclosure.
They do not want any responsibility or liability for what you are attempting to do.
Ultimately they are willing to loose your business vs. agreeing to your request for more info and specifics.
You are asking for further explanation and they are saying just don't do it. They simply do not want the liability.
In the end it seems you have found a solution without PI's help.
For reasons mentioned by Mr Wizard I do not find it necessary to use my PI surge with my Onan generator.
While you have found a viable solution to meet your needs. I imagine 99% of PI surge users are content with PI's response and simply do not use the genset with their surge unit.
