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Hot Ground???

buylow12
Explorer
Explorer
Alright, so after replacing my batteries I thought that our problems were solved. Especially when we arrived after two weeks to fully charged batteries in the storage yard(The refrigerator was hot however as it's fuse apparently blew :(. It was not to be. Again today when we arrived to the park our batteries were only reading 12.5v. I was thinking maybe it was the refrigerator doing something crazy since with the blown fuse our batteries were showing a amazingly full 13.2v at 2 am after two weeks on solar alone.

So I broke out the multi meter and tried to track down any leakage and I got a bit of a surprise. When I touched the negative post to the negative wire I only got .75 amps or so but when I touched my ground wire it was reading 10 amps. That was on top of a bit of sparking when I removed it. Can this be the cause of my battery drain?

I've got to admit I'm a bit confused at this point ๐Ÿ˜‰ From some reading I take it this is called a hot ground but I'm not sure what to do about it. I tried pulling all the fuses and putting them back in one by one but it seemed that anything that was on would increase the amps through the ground. How do I fix this?

Thanks(as usual) for the help,

Tim Czarkowski
TotatTravelers.Com
Tim Czarkowski
TotalTravelers.com
65 REPLIES 65

MrWizard
Moderator
Moderator
12v outlet for TV, the one with a switch for the antenna Amplifier ?
it serves (2) purposes, it supplies 12v for a small TV,
and it injects 12v into the coax going to the Amplifier in the Antenna head
you very likely have a bad antenna amplifier
water has gotten inside and corroded the board
or something has happen to the coax going to the antenna

i think your mysteries are solved replace the antenna coax and antenna head ( of course disconnect the coax on both ends, then check with the ohm meter, should be NO continuity aka open circuit, resistance should be infinite, any actual ohms, reading the cable is bad

power use for the amplifier is in the Milli-amps
10 amps would melt that coax

you might have already disconnected that outlet, which means the wire leading to it has melted/did melt before you got to it, which is where your 10 amps was going
I can explain it to you.
But I Can Not understand it for you !

....

Connected using T-Mobile Home internet and Visible Phone service
1997 F53 Bounder 36s

buylow12
Explorer
Explorer
OK, so I did finally find a fan in the back of the refrigerator. It is in-between the bottom vent and the top vent. Very difficult to see, I wouldn't have noticed but my when my ac unit cutoff I could hear it running. It doesn't seem to be the problem either as it seems to be functioning normally.

I really think it's probably this non functioning 12v outlet. The end of my TV cable was melted a few weeks back and I assumed it was something with the park I was at but it seems like it has to be related now that I think about it(I posted another thread about it then). How are those things wired? Neither of the cables attaching to it match the one in the splice. Would it be run to something like the terminal block on the fridge and then different cables to the outlet itself? I'm thinking of buying one of those cheap cable tracing things from Home Depot to help find it(I always wanted one after seeing the telephone system repair man it my old job using one ๐Ÿ˜‰

Tim Czarkowski
Totaltravelers.com
Tim Czarkowski
TotalTravelers.com

MrWizard
Moderator
Moderator
that switch shaft is a common 'electronics' thread
5/8 fine thread
might a take a little search but a tube with the inside thread the same size should be available, screw it on surrounding the toggle, it can't be touched, like an oversize pen barrel as a cover
unscrew to flip the switch
might be available in colored aluminum tubing
at a electronics surplus

OR Maybe in the Lamp parts electrical at the local hardware store
I can explain it to you.
But I Can Not understand it for you !

....

Connected using T-Mobile Home internet and Visible Phone service
1997 F53 Bounder 36s

buylow12
Explorer
Explorer
Well I found a splice about a foot back from the terminal block on the fridge and as soon as I disconnected it the 10 amp draw went away. However I don't know what it is that I've disconnected. I've tried everything I can think of that runs off the 12v but everything seems to be functioning. So I'd say the original problem is solved but now I've got a new mystery.

Tim Czarkowski
Totaltravelers.com
Tim Czarkowski
TotalTravelers.com

bighatnohorse
Explorer II
Explorer II
buylow12 wrote:


Well it was useful for finding out which circuit was drawing all those amps. From there I was able to find the problem splice. . . .


So you found the problem?
2021 Arctic Fox 1150
'15 F350 6.7 diesel dually long bed
Eagle Cap Owners
โ€œThe best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."
-Yeats

Salvo
Explorer
Explorer
The OP had the right tool for the job. His method is right on.

You just haven't understood the issue at hand. There's no hot ground. The battery is being drained by an unknown 10A source.

bighatnohorse wrote:

Lastly, if you don't know what you are doing, you should quit trying to use an amp meter for troubleshooting.

bighatnohorse
Explorer II
Explorer II
A hot ground on an AC circuit can be caused by a bad wire tie connector.
The hot ground leg of the AC outlet in my camper was quickly determined using a voltmeter.
The cause was a loose wire tie connector (shown in the image below).

A quick way of checking outlets is with an outlet tester like the one shown below:

Lastly, if you don't know what you are doing, you should quit trying to use an amp meter for troubleshooting. Perhaps you have some kind of newer high end meter with automatic shunting built in, but if not, you would be safer and more efficient using a volt meter.
2021 Arctic Fox 1150
'15 F350 6.7 diesel dually long bed
Eagle Cap Owners
โ€œThe best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."
-Yeats

DrewE
Explorer II
Explorer II
buylow12 wrote:
Your probably the third person to say that so I figured I'd give it another thorough look. There are two vents, a lower one and an upper one. The upper one has what looks like a heat exchanger but there are no fans that I see. Looking through the manual it appears there is usually supposed to be a lower vent and a roof vent but I can't find any mention of fans. Obviously since it's in a slide it can't have a roof vent so that why there is an upper one. Maybe some models have them and others don't? Anywhere else I should look?

Well it was useful for finding out which circuit was drawing all those amps. From there I was able to find the problem splice. I also used the ohm setting on the multimeter a bit. Like I said this is the first time really using the multimeter so I'm just learning how to use the different settings. You say I should use the volt setting, what is the difference/advantage to that? When should you use one vs the other?

Tim Czarkowski
TotalTravelers.com


The upper vent is the equivalent of the roof vent for your fridge installation. Basically it's just an intake (at the bottom) and an exhaust (at the top), with airflow induced by the heat from the fridge...and aided, in your case, by fans, since the upper side vent isn't as effective as a roof vent.

As for what setting to use, it entirely depends on what you're measuring, which depends on what you're trying to find. Not very helpful, I realize. It does make more sense when you have a decent grasp on basic electric circuit theory.

It's not a perfect description, but voltage is basically electric pressure, and current is electric flow. (Imagine a water hose or plumbing system for comparison.) You measure voltage between two different points: how much pressure is the battery producing? Is the pressure at the terminal of the battery different than the pressure at the input to the fridge? Is the electricity reaching the light, or is it cut off by a switch or fuse or something on the way?

Current, on the other hand, is measured through some point in the circuit. This implies that (absent a clamp-on meter that works "magically" via magnetic phenomena) you need to take apart the circuit and make the current flow through the meter, or at least through a shunt that you can then attach the meter to.

It's comparatively rare that measuring current is all that useful as a first step in troubleshooting something in an RV. It is useful to see how much electricity you're using at the moment, or whether some is leaking out where you don't want or expect it to, but not quite so handy usually for a "it works/it doesn't" sort of investigation.

Resistance (Ohms) is a description of how the voltage and current relate to each other for a given resistance. In a water analogy, it's like measuring the effect of a kink or constriction in a hose; at a given pressure (drop), you get a certain flow, determined by the amount of constriction. Ideally you want your wires (pipes/hoses) to have no restriction and cause no pressure drop, so they should show no resistance. You don't want your electrons going where they don't belong, so there should be infinite resistance (an open circuit or complete blockage) between the inside of the wire and the stuff on the outside.

Since the way to measure resistance is to put some known voltage across the resistance and measure the current, or vice-versa, the ohm range does not work when the circuit is live.

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Explorer
Using an ohm meter on a live circuit is like touching your tongue to a car door handle at -20F "to see how cold it is".

I like the FREE PDF download of THE 12 VOLT DOCTOR

Google THE 12 VOLT DOCTOR and get the download FREE no catches

The Same SITE has The ALTERNATOR HANDBOOK ---FREE---

MrWizard
Moderator
Moderator
volts, amps, ohms, are all useful
its knowing when and how to use them to the best advantage, you are in the learning stage

never use ohms on HOT wiring.. ohms/continuity is used to look for a break in the circuit, or a short that should not be there

volts, is used to look for power, is it missing, is the voltage low, high, trace back on the circuit until you find it


amps is used to measure a load, say you keep blowing a 2 amp fuse, using amps setting will tell you how much power is being used
drawing 5amps where there is supposed to be less than 2, something down stream from the fuse is bad and needs to be replaced, bad control board, fan motor, gas valve, or maybe a shorted wire, but those usually get hot an melt

ohms is last option, look for that open break in the circuit, AFTER you disconnect all power
I can explain it to you.
But I Can Not understand it for you !

....

Connected using T-Mobile Home internet and Visible Phone service
1997 F53 Bounder 36s

buylow12
Explorer
Explorer
Your probably the third person to say that so I figured I'd give it another thorough look. There are two vents, a lower one and an upper one. The upper one has what looks like a heat exchanger but there are no fans that I see. Looking through the manual it appears there is usually supposed to be a lower vent and a roof vent but I can't find any mention of fans. Obviously since it's in a slide it can't have a roof vent so that why there is an upper one. Maybe some models have them and others don't? Anywhere else I should look?

Well it was useful for finding out which circuit was drawing all those amps. From there I was able to find the problem splice. I also used the ohm setting on the multimeter a bit. Like I said this is the first time really using the multimeter so I'm just learning how to use the different settings. You say I should use the volt setting, what is the difference/advantage to that? When should you use one vs the other?

Tim Czarkowski
TotalTravelers.com
Tim Czarkowski
TotalTravelers.com

bighatnohorse
Explorer II
Explorer II
I'm not sure that one can successfully troubleshoot using an amp meter.
In fact, I'd bet that you'll never find the problem.

Proper troubleshooting uses a voltmeter and or a test light and an ohm meter when needed.
I think using an amp meter to troubleshoot will drive you crazy.
2021 Arctic Fox 1150
'15 F350 6.7 diesel dually long bed
Eagle Cap Owners
โ€œThe best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."
-Yeats

beemerphile1
Explorer
Explorer
If your refrigerator is in a slide, it probably has a fan or multiple fans behind it to assist in heat removal.
Build a life you don't need a vacation from.

2016 Silverado 3500HD DRW D/A 4x4
2018 Keystone Cougar 26RBS
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zach477
Explorer
Explorer
Not sure what the fuse would look like. Maybe an inline fuse built into the recepticle? Maybe just try disconnecting the recepticle all together and then tape up the wire(s) so they don't accidentally get shorted out.