HWH hydraulic relay

[wtravlr1]

My hydraulic slide sometimes stops on retraction. After a few minutes, it will start again and work. While I was checking voltages on the two hydraulic motor relays I found that the continuous duty relay is "on" as long as my key is on. Realy gets hot to touch (215 d.) Anyone know why this relay is "on" all the time even while traveling and not being used to activate slides or jacks? And should it get hot enough to burn your skin? It's an HWH hydraulic system.

[wtravlr1]

dougrainer wrote:
https://www.hwhcorp.com/ml48380.pdf

Well to put in in perspective. I have 38 years and still working on Tiffins. I have over 32 years working on HWH and have factory training at both. The system has 2 solenoids. The first solenoid just activates the system. NO real draw. It should NOT get hot just from travel. I assume the OP is stating that when he is operating the slides and/or the jacks that is when he finds that solenoid hot. IF so, then the solenoid needs replaced. I have not checked and never had too, but the system "may" de-energize when the Parking brake is released, as the jacks and slide rooms will not function on a Tiffin (or other motorhome)when the parking brake is NOT engaged. So, that would stop any concerns about the having that solenoid on. BUT, on some systems(300 series) the solenoid does stay energized when the brake is released to allow the system to go into hibernation for auto retract from road heat. HWH has built hundreds of thousands of these systems and I doubt it is a BAD ENGINEERING design. Tiffin just installs the system. The parameters are HWH parameters, NOT TIFFIN. Doug

One solenoid, i assume is the continuous duty will get hot as long as the key is on, upon ending a days drive and before using jacks or slides, the temp on the one solenoid id 215d. too hot to touch. seems to always have power to it. After operating jacks and slides, temp did not change. Solenoid only cools when key is off. Slide has been acting up. Press retract slide starts for about 2 seconds stops. Wait about 8-10 min. slide retracts normally good speed. Slide is lubed, balanced and goes in and out evenly.

1. don't know why it stops and seems to have to reset before the slide operates again - does only on retraction.
2. don't know why one solenoid is too hot to touch as long as key is on.

If you can give any thought it would be appreciated.

thanks/

[enblethen]

There is a reason it gets hot.
It could be current flow through the main contacts or higher resistance on the coil. Continuous duty coils should not get the housing hot.

[MrWizard]

in another thread, poster having trouble with jacks signaling down while driving, but they are retracted

it was noted that there is a retract feature that checks fluid level and auto retracts when level is low, meaning a jack not fully retracted

just maybe the powered on relay/solenoid is there so the system is 'alert' and ready to respond

and like Doug says, if it gets physically hot just being energized, then it needs to be replaced

[dougrainer]

https://www.hwhcorp.com/ml48380.pdf

Well to put in in perspective. I have 38 years and still working on Tiffins. I have over 32 years working on HWH and have factory training at both. The system has 2 solenoids. The first solenoid just activates the system. NO real draw. It should NOT get hot just from travel. I assume the OP is stating that when he is operating the slides and/or the jacks that is when he finds that solenoid hot. IF so, then the solenoid needs replaced. I have not checked and never had too, but the system "may" de-energize when the Parking brake is released, as the jacks and slide rooms will not function on a Tiffin (or other motorhome)when the parking brake is NOT engaged. So, that would stop any concerns about the having that solenoid on. BUT, on some systems(300 series) the solenoid does stay energized when the brake is released to allow the system to go into hibernation for auto retract from road heat. HWH has built hundreds of thousands of these systems and I doubt it is a BAD ENGINEERING design. Tiffin just installs the system. The parameters are HWH parameters, NOT TIFFIN. Doug

[enblethen]

On my HWH system there is an on/off switch (button) on the control. Once ignition is shut off you must push the on button to do anything further.
I did not find the 750 model on their website.

[wtravlr1]

enblethen wrote:
I would be thinking about adding a manual switch in the control circuit.
A lit rocker switch of about 15 amp rating.

That's where I am headed, need to talk to HWH factory to see if there is any downside. I think it should have a way to cut power. Don't see why it is hot all the time I am driving. I think a lot of coaches have an on/off for the slide then the slide operation switch.

Still wondering why the slide outs stop and then restart after short rest.

[enblethen]

I would be thinking about adding a manual switch in the control circuit.
A lit rocker switch of about 15 amp rating.

[wtravlr1]

enblethen wrote:
It seems to be odd that the main relay is energized all the time the ignition switch is in the "on" position.

I think so, Tiffin said that's how they were, but I'm not sure that is right. HWH is still a week out on a return phone call to find out. will post when I get an answer.

[enblethen]

That is not sound engineering.

[dougrainer]

enblethen wrote:
It seems to be odd that the main relay is energized all the time the ignition switch is in the "on" position.

I explained the reason. There is NO real current draw when it is energized. Doug

[enblethen]

It seems to be odd that the main relay is energized all the time the ignition switch is in the "on" position.

[wtravlr1]

dougrainer wrote:
1. YES, the primary relay is closed(ON)when the key is ON.
2. Never checked before about how hot they get
3. That relay is ON with the Key, because Tiffin slides operate with the KEY ON. So, for the pump motor solenoid to activate from the slide switch, the primary solenoid must be ON to transmit battery power to the motor solenoid
4. The solenoids are not that expensive. I would replace it and then see.
5. Are you the original owner? Maybe someone replaced the continuous duty solenoid with an aftermarket that does not have the same rating as the HWH solenoid Doug

PS Tiffin rarely knows how any Non Tiffin appliance works
E MAIL HWH! You will get a response in less than 2 days.

They are now one week out when I called HWH busy time of year!

Thank you makes sense. Used a laser temp. gun (got a Walmart) to measure temps on everything from air con. to fridge/tires. just used it to find out temp of the relay.

I would like to find aftermarket relays but have to find out the ratings.Unless someone knows, one person found them on Amazon but don't know which relay # they were talking about.

I have ordered two new relays. Since that seems to be where this is heading. Will let post so if anyone runs into the same problem there will be a thread. Thank you for your response.

[wtravlr1]

wtravlr1 wrote:

MrWizard wrote:
is the pump running ? - YES
are you sure that is a pump relay ? - YES

where is it located ? at the pump or someplace else ? - one on each side of pump.

could it be the battery combiner relay ? - Not sure Tiffing service called them relays - one continuous and one ntermittent

i am not familiar with your electrical layout ?

but the only relay i am aware of that stays on all the time the key is on, is the battery combiner relay

-

From what I know it is not a battery comber relay. Tiffin called them continuous and intermittent pump relays.

Tiffin did not know why (the continuous relay stayed on when key is on even though not operation slides/jacks) either, why that is necessary. Called HWH factory service

HWH is one week behind answering phone service requests. 10/6/17

[wtravlr1]

I have also replaced two resettable circuit breakers, (had another coach where they were weak and dropped out too soon.) Voltage checks at motor and relays are 14v.

The relays and motor also have separate in-line fuses that have not blown. (in addition to resettable circuit breakers on the main panel.

Trying to figure out what else would drop out, then come back online in 8-10 min. My first thought was weak circuit breakers or low voltage but ruled that out. Looking for the next logical thing that can reset. right now maybe the relays?

1. is it normal for a continuous duty relay to get too hot to touch (200+Deg.)?
2. Slide starts and immediately stops on retraction. then after 8-10 min retract ok what else in the system will do a reset>