Inverter out -- extension cord?

[sjturbo]

I have read that some use extension cord as the ac out on their inverter. We plan to run a flat panel tv, dvd player, or satellite box with our 600 watt inverter. I need to run about 40 feet from the inverter to the outlets. Can I use a 14 gauge extension cord?

[westend]

If you have your inverter location finalized and are only contemplating the use of a transfer switch, you could install the inverter and use cords, initially. Pulling the wire to a load center and adding in a transfer switch will not cause any special retrofitting regarding the inverter installation.

[sjturbo]

Thanks all! For the many inputs. I meant no disrespect to anyone when questioning their ideas, just clarification. "This" is what I will likely do. mena661 cleared the forest for MrWizard and the road is clear now. Thanks again!!

[sjturbo]

mena661 wrote:

MrWizard wrote:

Or
Leave the electronics on inverter full-time
This way there is no drop out , they are always protected from shore power surges etc..
The converter will charge the batteries and power inverter when on shore power or Honda
No transfer switch needed

This.

I will ponder this option! Sometimes it's hard to see the forest for the trees. Or the tree in the forest!

[mena661]

MrWizard wrote:

Or
Leave the electronics on inverter full-time
This way there is no drop out , they are always protected from shore power surges etc..
The converter will charge the batteries and power inverter when on shore power or Honda
No transfer switch needed

This.

[MrWizard]

i think a qualifier is in order
i think you took PT..to literally
i'm sure he meant always on when watching TV

thats why many inverters have a "remote switch" option

besides many inverters have a "load sense" which means they only draw "mill-amps" of power when there is no devices turned on
and can easily be left on the whole camping trip, without significant impact on the batteries, especially since you plan on running the generator some

we full time, our TWO inverters are never turned off, unless i'm doing some kind of maintenance work on batteries or wiring

[sjturbo]

pianotuna, you are correct on A thru D. There is no loss when the inverter is off. However my responses to your posts have been based on your previous post, "It would be simpler by far to feed the plugs direct from the inverter and always have it on." Note, "always have it on". If I were to "always have it on" the inverter would always be drawing battery power when boondocking, even if the devices were off. This is correct is it not? I think sometimes the posts get lost when threads get so long. My main focus is only using battery power when it is needed. There is enough parasitic draw from the various other items in the 5er. no need to include an inverter if it is not being used all the time.

[pianotuna]

Hi sjturbo,

No there is no loss when the devices powered by the inverter are off and the inverter is off.

Some scenarios:

A. If you want the items on and there is no shore power the batteries will power them via the inverter and the batteries will discharge.

B. If you want them on and there IS shore power the batteries don't power the inverter, the converter does, so the batteries do not discharge.

C. If you want them on and there IS generator power, the batteries don't power the inverter, the generator powers the converter and the converter powers the inverter. So the batteries do not discharge.

D. If you have enough solar then the solar provides the energy to run the devices via the inverter and the batteries are not discharged.

It is true that B and C involve double conversion and that causes extra losses, but for the small loads you are talking about it doesn't amount to much energy at all.

If you were using a 3000 watt inverter to the max then it would be better to use a transfer switch. However, this is not what you are doing.

[sjturbo]

pianotuna, "The converter charges the battery, the battery runs the inverter. No loss from the battery."
Granted, the converter charges the battery. However when boondocking the only time the converter is on is when the generator is on to recharge the batteries. When the generator is not on the converter is also not on, so the inverter IS powered by the batteries, (when in use). So yes there is loss from the battery.

[pianotuna]

Hi,

The converter charges the battery, the battery runs the inverter. No loss from the battery. Run a remote switch to the inverter if you are concerned about losses in storage.

Personally I totally disconnect the inverter from the DC inputs during storage. I use a couple of switches from Napa.

sjturbo wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
Hi,

If the genny back feeds the inverter you may damage both. I don't like transfer switches.

It would be simpler by far to feed the plugs direct from the inverter and always have it on. The OEM converter would power the inverter whenever the 30 amp plug is being fed.

Thanks for the input. I assume that you are referring to back feeds in case of a transfer switch failure? I really do not do separate 30' and 15' runs of 12/2.
The inverter will basically be used when boondocking only for the TV,DVD or Sat. so leaving it on all the time seems to be a bad waste of good battery energy.

[MrWizard]

Transfer switches are Safe, especially for low pOwer loads like TV
But you will likely experience drop out of the TV and Sat box when turning off the Honda and going back to the inverter

What happens is the Sat box and maybe the TV turn off as the voltage drops, as the Honda shuts down
But the transfer switch won't drop out and switch to inverter until the voltage drops lower and the relay switch coil de-energizes

The two choices are pull the shore cord from the Honda before shut down aka instantaneous disconnect and power transfer

Or
Leave the electronics on inverter full-time
This way there is no drop out , they are always protected from shore power surges etc..
The converter will charge the batteries and power inverter when on shore power or Honda
No transfer switch needed

[sjturbo]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi,

If the genny back feeds the inverter you may damage both. I don't like transfer switches.

It would be simpler by far to feed the plugs direct from the inverter and always have it on. The OEM converter would power the inverter whenever the 30 amp plug is being fed.

Thanks for the input. I assume that you are referring to back feeds in case of a transfer switch failure? I really do not do separate 30' and 15' runs of 12/2.
The inverter will basically be used when boondocking only for the TV,DVD or Sat. so leaving it on all the time seems to be a bad waste of good battery energy.

[sjturbo]

The 30amp shore service would only be plugged in when charging the batteries during boondocking. The inverter would not be powered up at that time.

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
A pair of common DPDT 120vac relays rated at 30 amperes can safely pass sixty amps and be used as a transfer relay. Wire them individually, one relay, both poles for the hot, the other relay both poles carries only neutral.

On the Kelley, I used six relays so as to provide 60 amperes capacity 3 phase 240 power. Those relays had 240 volt coils. A GE transformer converted single phase down to 60 amperes of 120 volt AC. When they were connected to the dock, and needed refrigeration they cranked up the Allis Chalmers 60 KW gensets and paralleled them. Shore power switching was automatic. The shore power cord was 4/4 cable, a little bulky.

There is ZERO reason to be forced to settle for garbage transfer switch relays, IMHO. The integral relay in my Trace 4024 has been neutered because it is a joke compared to the 6" X 6" box sitting next to the inverter.

Sorry MW I must have a short between the headset but I don't understand how this would look in a diagram or how I would hook it up based on your explanation. I agree the Transfer switch is likely lower quality but much easier to understand.
SM, are you responding to MW or me?

[time2roll]

sjturbo,

Power only goes one way in a 120v circuit. You cannot use a wire to feed the converter and use the same wire to back feed the inverter.

You need to pull two wires to the front if you want this wired correctly. Or you can place the inverter in behind the breaker panel and use the existing 12v main connection.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Link to a GOOD 120 volt relay...

http://www.mcmaster.com/#7384k41/=tw3is3