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Is 100Wh from a standard Group24 battery reasonable?

Reflex439
Explorer
Explorer
I don’t know the condition or actual specs on the battery, but its a used battery in a RV I purchased used.
Here is how it is marked;
M24-1 starting marine battery
Marine cranking 625
Cold cranking 500
Reserve capacity 95

When using it, I can get a hour or so running a 19” 12V TV, running the fantastic fan on low most of the night, a couple LED lights, and the refrig on LP setting. In the morning the monitor I have installed shows ~100Wh of energy used, voltage of around 11.8 to 12.0 with a light load (refrig on LP and fan on low), and needing to be recharged.

I am not familiar with watts vs amps over a time frame, so I don’t know if 100Wh is typical for a Group 24 battery before needing to be recharged. Does this seem normal for similar batteries? If not, what might be considered more reasonable for a Group 24 deep cycle battery? 1.5x, 2x or ???

Currently this is the only house battery installed, other than the vehicle battery which is isolated. I have just enough room for two side-by-side group 24 batteries (see dimensions below).

Just looking for ideas on increasing the current capacity, and hoping for a minimum of a two fold increase. I do not want to modify the existing battery compartment, so the right solution needs to fit in a 14”W x 10.5L” x 9.5”H space

Thanks...
37 REPLIES 37

Reflex439
Explorer
Explorer
MrWizard wrote:
The shunt is not polarity sensitive, doesn't matter which end is connected to the battery
Try setting the meter at 200 amp


Only 100A and 50A settings 😞

I'll live with the meter as is. Regardless of the accuracy of the numbers compared to Wh, at least it will be a far more accurate indication of battery capacity once I cycle the batteries a few times to find out what the bottom range is. I can then use it as a far more accurate and granular gauge compared to the 4 LED stock RV monitor.

Again, thanks for all the help everybody.

Almot
Explorer III
Explorer III
Wandering RV Life wrote:

I purchased the same item on Amazon to track how much current is being drawn from my batteries. Very cheap compared to Victron battery monitor or Trimetric. Mine reads 0.00 when the solar panel is producing more than what is being used from the battery.

Meters, in order of increasing accuracy:
Turnigy, GT Power, Watts Up.

Video review.

Other countless and nameless gizmos from Ebay and Amazon are hit and miss, more often miss.

When very accurate meter like GT costs $40, it's hard to justify $180 for Victron and Trimetric. Display of my solar controller does "half" of the job, reporting real-time and total "in" activity for the day. The total is usually to my satisfaction, i.e. battery reached 14.6, dropped to 13.6 and stayed there for several hours. Don't have that teenager curiosity to explore how much watts my electric shaver or radio draw, and besides, I already know that 🙂

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Explorer
errrrrr......

Sulphate of lead with antimony dressing?

MrWizard
Moderator
Moderator
Maybe it's correct?
Like I said the fan use seems correct
Either way, the current battery is toast
I can explain it to you.
But I Can Not understand it for you !

....

Connected using T-Mobile Home internet and Visible Phone service
1997 F53 Bounder 36s

tenbear
Explorer
Explorer
I have a 22" TV running off 12v and it draws about 1A.

A 19" TV drawing 12 watts doesn't seem to out of line to me.
Class C, 2004/5 Four Winds Dutchman Express 28A, Chevy chassis
2010 Subaru Impreza Sedan
Camped in 45 states, 7 Provinces and 1 Territory

MrWizard
Moderator
Moderator
The shunt is not polarity sensitive, doesn't matter which end is connected to the battery
Try setting the meter at 200 amp
And see what the readings are
That should double the readings
And yes sometimes the meter might arrive miss labeled
I can explain it to you.
But I Can Not understand it for you !

....

Connected using T-Mobile Home internet and Visible Phone service
1997 F53 Bounder 36s

Reflex439
Explorer
Explorer
Point taken on Solar, although not as helpful in my situation. I almost always park in deep shade for best cooling in the summer. In the winter, I would be parking in the sun for the opposite reason, but rarely use it in the winter. So my best bang for the buck is to increase overall capacity.

I need to run the generator a few hours a day anyway for other purposes (charging RC helicopter batteries, microwave, etc). Increasing my current capacity by adding two brand new deep cycle batteries will give me lots of overhead even if the batteries only get recharged to 80% or so each day. It will also extend my time from needing to recharge every 24hrs to every couple of days. And the batteries will also get fully topped off at the end of the trip once back on shore power waiting for the next trip. If I didn’t have the need to run the generator every day, solar would be higher up on the priority list.

SkiSmuggs wrote:
Grp 24 batteries are the cheapest and that is why dealers install them. A grp 24 has 75-80AH, a grp 27 has 90-100 although I had one from Costco rated to 110 amp hours.


I can only fit one Group 27 (90-100) in my battery space. I can fit two Group 24s (150-160) 🙂

Problem one solved, so on to the meter…

MrWizard wrote:
Reflex
It seems you wired it correctly
But a 19 inch TV that only uses 12w, seems like a miracle to me
Although the fan power seems right
There are no stray negative wires connected on the wrong side of the shunt?
The only thing on the negative battery post is the shunt?
ALL negative wires are connected on the output far side of the shunt?
Any negative wire connected at the post side instead of the far side will be bypassing the shunt and NOT give a reading on the meter


The manual for the TV (Insignia tv NS-19D220NA16) lists 30w powered on consumption. So the 13.5w is probably incorrect (which is the increase the meter shows when I turn it on). So we can probably assume the meter is off by a factor of 2 or so.

All leads are connected as shown in the diagram. I checked continuity of the individual wires, labeled them, and doubled checked several times during the installation. I’ll go back and re-check the wiring configuration once more just in case. If you had to guess which things might cause the meter to read low, what should I be looking at, testing, etc?

Here is a photo showing the wiring. The wire that doesn’t show a label is wire #2, labeled just out of frame. Wire #1 looks like there may be some strands touching the other terminal, but its actually an indentation in the shunt itself, and no stray strands are actually touching.



The paperwork that comes with the meter states that it comes with a 100A shunt, and the default setting in the meter is for 100A. If they accidentally shipped a 50A shunt, could that account for the difference in the meter reading? I set it to 50A to see, but the consumption seemed even lower, showing the TV drawing even less at ~7w. A true miracle?

Is the shunt sensitive to which side gets connected to the negative pole? I.e., could the wiring be correct, but the shunt needs to be flipped end to end the wiring redone for the new shunt configuration?

And thanks for all the help guys. Really appreciate it!

wanderingrvlife
Explorer
Explorer
tenbear wrote:
MrWizard wrote:
1 amp at 12v would be 12 amp hrs


How about: 1 amp at 12v would be 1 amp hr or 12 watt hrs.

Am I missing something?


I purchased the same item on Amazon to track how much current is being drawn from my batteries. Very cheap compared to Victron battery monitor or Trimetric. Mine reads 0.00 when the solar panel is producing more than what is being used from the battery.

Not bad for only $18.75

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Wandering RV Life

Almot
Explorer III
Explorer III
Mex has nailed it.

Battery wants to rise to 14.6, hang there for a while and then stay at 13.8 until the cows come home. Then it will be full and happy.

Generator is good for partial charging, it won't bring it to full in an hour or two.

Converter is good for keeping it at 13.8. The best models will raise it to 14.6 but it's not intelligent enough to know for how long to keep it at 14.6 before dropping to 13.8, so the battery won't be completely happy but more-less satisfied.

So the best way is to plug a regulated DC power supply and babysit it, watching the current and changing the voltage.

Fortunately, there are better solutions today.

A decent solar controller will bring it to 14.6 and power down to 13.8 when the time is right. No need to do anything manually, microchip will switch to 13.8 when needed, not sooner or later. A half-decent one will still bring it to full by running 13.8 after an hour or two on generator, not a perfect way but better than most other scenarios.

MrWizard
Moderator
Moderator
to be specific
the converter or charger with generator is good for a weekend or maybe a week
then take the RV home and plug in to power and let the converter slowly bring the battery back to full topped up charge

if the RV is going to be stored with NO shore power, the battery will not be full
and every such trip slowly reduces the batteries total capacity, because it is never fully recharged, Solar on the roof cures this problem

it keeps working after you turn the generator off
it works while the RV is stored, even for months with no shore power
during the week while you are working it makes sure the battery gets fully topped off and ready to go

of course all off this, is only relevant to keeping a good battery good
and nothing to do with the meter or the possible bad battery
I can explain it to you.
But I Can Not understand it for you !

....

Connected using T-Mobile Home internet and Visible Phone service
1997 F53 Bounder 36s

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Explorer
Manual charging is a big improvement over converter charging.

Almot
Explorer III
Explorer III
SkiSmuggs wrote:
Grp 24 batteries are the cheapest and that is why dealers install them. A grp 24 has 75-80AH, a grp 27 has 90-100 although I had one from Costco rated to 110 amp hours.

It's not just about size. The OP gr 24 is not rated in AH. One of those "marine" (or marketed as marine), meaning this is something in between a starter battery and coach battery. Probably closer to starter than coach.

Mr Wiz is right on incomplete charging too. They are never full when using charging sources other than solar or VERY long shore charging. When it is not full at the beginning, it will not give you what it's supposed to.

MrWizard
Moderator
Moderator
How is that any different from a decent chargers ability to FULLY charge the batteries, regardless if its from generator, shore power, or the sun? Are solar charges somewhat different from a good 4-stage charger? I thought they were just as good. What am I missing here?


It's not design capability, it's the real world use
Will you leave a generator run for 12 hrs to get those last 2 amp trickle charge into the battery at 14.+v, that it takes to get the battery fully back to complete charge?

Most people will run the generator one of two hours and call it good
But the battery might be some where between 80 and 90 percent maybe even less, no where near fully charged
This is where solar really shines,
It charge all day long even when you are gone hiking or fishing or sight seeing, solar will float the batteries when the TT is stored and not being used, so that the batteries are fully charged when you take off for the weekend
If takes 4 hrs to go from 60 percent charge to 90 percent with the charger and generator, it will take at least 4 more to get to 100 percent, in some cases maybe 8 more hours
For most people the only time this kind of full-time charging take place is when plugged into shore power
I can explain it to you.
But I Can Not understand it for you !

....

Connected using T-Mobile Home internet and Visible Phone service
1997 F53 Bounder 36s

SkiSmuggs
Explorer
Explorer
Grp 24 batteries are the cheapest and that is why dealers install them. A grp 24 has 75-80AH, a grp 27 has 90-100 although I had one from Costco rated to 110 amp hours. Your battery is not up to the job and measurements should show that a 27 will fit in its place. That Costco battery got me 3 days of dry camping with minimal lights and furnace.
2015 F350 XLT PSD 6.7 Crew Cab, Andersen Ultimate hitch
2012 Cougar High Country 299RKS 5th wheel, Mor/Ryde pinbox, 300w of solar